CD1

(72 mins)
 

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BORN WILSHAM, COUNTISBURY 1925 / FAMILY BACKGROUND / HALLIDAY ESTATE / OLD SCHOOL HOUSE SIBLINGS / PARENTS / SELLING VEGETABLES

Born Wilsham 1925, two miles away from here [the Old School House, Countisbury], stayed there until he got married in 1951. Has been here for 50 years. Dad was a gardener and then he worked for Devon County Council, on the roads. TL doesn't know much about his grandparents, he was a latecomer. Mum was married before to Dad's brother who died in 1915 leaving seven children. Dad was in the army and married mum when he came out. Dad and Mum then had two children, so the seven others were half-brothers and sisters. Dad's brother wasn't killed in the war, he was a mason. Of half brothers and sisters, oldest is a sister of 92 - TL's 76, not a great difference really. His mother never talked about marrying the brother.

Mother had a hard life bringing up seven children. No social security then. She used to take in washing. He thinks she was a postwoman during the war. They lived then at Top Cottage, the highest point in Wilsham, which belonged to the Halliday Glenthorne estate. When Dad died TL's brother came there to live and bought the cottage when Hallidays sold off most of the properties. TL bought this house, the Old School House, off them in 1951 for £300. School had closed down in 1908. He thinks if he'd offered £150 he might have got it, he always regrets that £150 that he lost[laughs].

After she re-married, his mother had two more children - Wilf was three years older than him. TL left school at 13 [1938] and went to work on the farm at Wilsham until 1951 when he moved to the Old School House and went bus driving. House at Wilsham had a sitting room, dining room, kitchen and larder and three bedrooms upstairs. Shed outside the back door which mother had the boiler in and where she did her washing. There was no water or sanitation. Water fetched from the well and thrown away in buckets over the garden. Loo was in the garden up the steps and round the back. Washed in a bowl in the kitchen. TL believes all other children had gone when he came along except Wilfred, his brother, and had dispersed all over the place - London, New Forest, Porlock, Exford, Blackmoor Gate. [check - Eldest sibling only 16 years older - surely some must still have been at home]

His mother's grandfather was a policeman near Lyme Regis at Uplyme, but he didn't know them. His mother's maiden name was Lake. He didn't know any of his grandparents. Dad's mother's family were bakers in Brendon. But there is no reference to a grandfather there, he came from North Molton - TL's wife Barbara was doing a history [of the family]. He's not sure what brought his mother from Lyme Regis but thinks her [first] husband, who was a builder, was working there and met her there. TL feels he should ask his eldest sister, Doris, more about the family because when she dies it will all die with her.

His father's people lived at Brendon at the bakery and the shop. They baked in a big bake oven, like a room. They used to fill it up with sticks and light it, scrape out all the ashes and put the bread in. All this was before he was old enough to remember more than just the shop. Remembers father used to garden at Doone Cottage, Rockford but can't remember where else. He used to grow a lot of stuff. Sold peas, beans, cabbages. People from guest houses in Lynmouth used to come up and buy his produce. [Back to top]
 

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DELIVERIES TRADESPEOPLE / VISITS TO LONDON / SIBLINGS / RENT

Used to get milk and eggs from the farm. Two butchers called, Tuesdays and Fridays. Two grocers called. Kelloways in Brendon used to make the bread then. Olive Kelloway used to deliver bread on a horse with a big sack across her knees with some bread that side and some that side [indicates]. Butcher came in a horse and cart from Lynton or Lynmouth. Their butcher was Isaacs from Lynton, others nearby dealt with Medways. The grocers were Gilbanks & Squires and Burtons, who came alternate weeks. They took orders on Tuesdays and delivered on Thursdays, something like that. Miss Broome, the chemist, came from Lynmouth once a week or fortnightly, he doesn't know why she came so regularly. Shoes and boots came from Barnstaple, Mr Yeo would take orders and take back boots that needed repairing. Pyles, general haulers at Millslade, sent a lorry into Barnstaple every week - brought back everything that was needed - pub's beer, boots and shoes, whatever. Pyles was a real collection point on a Friday.

His mother never needed to go out. He doesn't think she did, maybe to Barnstaple once a year. [pause] They used to go on holiday once a year, sometimes to a sister that lived in London or to another one that lived in the New Forest. Mother went too - he's not sure whether Dad went. After leaving school TL went to London every year.

One sister [Hilda] was a lady-in-waiting to Lady somebody; she used to travel quite a lot, to Canada and Switzerland and such places. Another sister, probably went up with the first sister, finished up as manageress of a Lyons Corner House. Brother Fred was butler for Lord Goschen in London. They travelled by bus to Minehead and then train on their visits to London. TL first went to London in the early '30s, aged ?5, 6 or 7. He can't remember what they did in London but remembers playing in open land with trees opposite the Hoover factory in Perivale. The sister he visited lived in Perivale, Middlesex. She moved to Birmingham. Another sister, Chris, lived at Romford or Upminster and he used to go there when he was single and for his honeymoon. Father would look after himself while they were away.

Cottage at Wilsham then belonged to Miss Halliday. TL didn't have to do anything with the estate. He thinks rent was two shillings [10p] a week, paid half-yearly. [Back to top]
 

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COUNTISBURY SCHOOL / WILSHAM FARM / MR REED

TL walked to Countisbury school with his brother Wilf - up Wilsham Lane, over the moors to Combe farm, picked up the teachers' milk, over two or three fields and into the school - about a mile and a half. The teachers were Mrs Beck and her daughter Miss Beck. It was a rough old trip over the moor, mind, when it was raining and blowing and you could get wet through. Then you had to stand before the fire, one of these big tortoise fires. It wasn't bad to get wet because you stood beside the fire for some time. There were about 28 pupils approx, including the children from Brendon who walked up through the fields. He didn't care for school too much as he was a get up and go sort of rough fellow rather than sitting down pen pushing. Teachers were very strict. Mrs Beck used to like giving him the cane. More than a certain number of mistakes at dictation and you had the cane, he used to hold out his hand before starting [laughs]. The daughter, Miss Beck, used to teach the younger ones, including him. She was all right. But with her mother they at least didn't do anything they weren't supposed to. Even on days off or on holidays you were up before the court if you stepped out of line and she got to hear about it.

They started school at 9.30 - prayers, religious instruction for half an hour, sums, then various subjects between 11.00 and 1.00, including dictation on Fridays. More general education in the afternoon. No organised games or sport, there was nowhere to play. They used to garden sometimes in Mrs Beck's veg garden.

They were all pretty friendly. George Graham, a farmer's son who lived at Wilsham, was a great pal at school and after but he died aged 49. TL and GG were best man at each other's weddings. Otherwise very few friends still alive. [interruption while postman and TL discuss the post]

Wilsham farm was about 250 acres but has been added to by ploughing moorland. At one time there were two farms. The old farmhouse was let to Mr Reed, an Oxford don who came down on his holidays. Looked after by TL's mum, and his dad did the garden. He was a bachelor, who walked and read, a very lonesome and private man. The Cranmers, who were cricketers, used to come and stay with Mr R, Peter Cranmen was one of the sons. Leslie Franks was a young boy who was the driver - came down with Mr R - and eventually when Mr R died he took on and bought the property. Before he had Leslie Franks as his ?companion / chauffeur, Mr R would come down by train, then bus to the top, and then he was fetched by a horse and cart. Mr R was a great walker. TL remembers once his mum met him on Rockford bridge and Mr R didn't even recognise her - he was that sort of man [laughs]. [Noises off - lamb bleating TL breaks off to feed it] [Back to top]
 

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WILSHAM COTTAGES / BROTHER / GLENTHORNE / PICKING LAVER / ACCESS TO COUNTRYSIDE

As TL said, Leslie Franks bought the property and when he died his wife moved back to Oxford. The farmhouse has been sold again to Tom Farthing.

All Wilsham belonged to the Halliday estate. The two cottages that belonged to the farm for the workers were down below the farm (and have since been made into one) and TL's family lived in a cottage on its own, above the farm. Donald Graham lived at the farm and later his son George, who TL was friendly with. He, George, then died of a heart attack at the age of 49 and his son John took over. When Mr Graham [Donald] retired he moved into the two cottages [below the farm] and made them into one. When he died he left to his daughter Margaret and she sold it and its been sold a couple of times since that. In one half of the semi-detached cottages [before they were converted] there lived a chap called George Garnish who worked on the farm for Mr Graham. In the other there lived a chap called Fred Steer who was the lengthman on the road from Lynmouth to County Gate, working for the council, looking after the road, clearing the gutters and things like that.

With his friend George, TL, as a child, would go down to the river to play. As they grew older they would go to Lynton to the pictures or dance or whatever, sometimes with Wilf his brother. Wilf was a carpenter and learned his trade with Nancekivell. He used to have to go the other side of Barbrook to work every morning to what was then Kivell's workshop. He'd cycle the four or five miles. Kivell [which was what they called him] was a builder from Lynton. He supposes his brother became a carpenter as it was all that was available, or maybe there were no farm jobs going.

There was little contact with Miss Halliday, it was all done through the agent Pitts-Tucker. The only contact was when she came to the school sometimes and when they went to parties at Christmas at Glenthorne, then they used to walk to Glenthorne from the school. The parties were tea parties and you got an orange when you left. It was dark and dreary at Christmas time but he can't really remember what went on and can't even visualise the tea table. When she [Miss Halliday] came to the school it was just to look around, a courtesy visit.

He left school in the July when he was still 13 - he was 14 at the end of August - and started work on 7 September - so he started work three [?four] days after war broke out. He remembers the outbreak of war. They used to have a harvest home [celebration] at Combe farm and he went there to pick up the harvest home cups (white with blue CHH - Countisbury Harvest Home - on them) to take to school because they were expecting evacuees. This was on Sunday. He was at Combe farm as Chamberlain was making his speech and he stopped and listened to it on the radio. They were on their way to pick laver in Wingate wood down below Desolate. Laver is seaweed. They took the cups from Combe farm to Countisbury school for the evacuees then went to the wood down by the sea to pick laver. They used to cook and eat the laver, still do when they can get it. You can buy it in Barnstaple now, in Butchers Row.

He thinks there's probably still laver in Wingate wood but doubts whether you can get down to the sea as the trees have fallen down the slipways. The wood is still part of the Glenthorne estate but the cliffs from Glenthorne right through to Lynmouth have been sold to the National Trust. You could walk anywhere at that time without getting permission. It is only since the influx of outsiders that it has been necessary to bar people from walking all over the place. Back in those days you were local and had lived there for years and the land belonged to locals. You knew one another and you didn't stop someone you knew from walking anywhere, really.

TL can't remember any local enemies or feuds, at Wilsham they were all in good harmony. [Back to top]
 

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VISITORS GAMES / COLIN AND MARY REDDY / FIRST JOB AT WILSHAM FARM / SIBLINGS' WARTIME INVOLVEMENT / COUNTISBURY IN WARTIME

The evacuees didn't come to the school. There were evacuees, but not in large numbers. There were several in Brendon. They came, TL thinks, of their own accord rather than in a block. His family had no evacuees staying with them. A number of the evacuees from London were staying with relations. There must have been a few planted nearby but TL can't think who or what. There wasn't the mass influx they had expected. He remembers good things about the evacuees [laughs], he got on very well with one of the girls. [pause] They were from London, staying with relations in Brendon. There were three sisters. [pause] They had some evacuees at the farm - a mother and baby and a woman of 40 odd who obviously evacuated herself, to get out of the way of the bombing he supposes. He doesn't know how they knew where to go, it must have been word of mouth.

The farm took in visitors. They used to get quite a lot of visitors. Some brought their horses by train to Minehead, they used to come for the hunting. There was another place in Wilsham called The Cabin, where the Hendersons lived. He was a ship's captain and his wife and daughter used to come and stay quite a lot in the summer. At the top of the lane there was The Hut (all self-built). People called Reddy used to come there, with a son Colin and daughter Mary. He used to play with them in the school summer holidays. They introduced different games - murders, in the barn, and charades. Normally local children just messed about in the fields and farm buildings. [relates story of subsequent death of Colin Reddy]. Mary Reddy, stays at Silcombe every year (with Jane and Henry Richards), she was there a month ago. She comes down with her daughter, who's a dentist in Portishead. Mary lost her husband, who died while on holiday in Spain many years ago.

TL and the visiting children would go into each others homes.

When war was declared he was about to start his first job at the farm at Wilsham. During the war his father was working on the roads for the council.

Of his older brothers, Fred was in the army in Burma, Stan also and Les (his nephew John's father), who was invalided out. His sisters weren't involved, he imagines they were all up and married and had got families maybe. Chris never had a family but lived in London, married of course. They had a tailoring business, she wouldn't have gone in the services. At home they didn't know there was a war, there was no shortage of food. Fred was the only one long time in the army in Burma. Cecil was unfit for the army and lived in Porlock. Les went in [the army] and came out again . Stan went in the army. So far as TL knows he did his time. [Back to top]
 

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FIRST JOB / DELIVERING MILK TO ROCKFORD / GEORGE GARNISH

His first job was on Wilsham farm. He milked twice a day seven days a week. Didn't have a day off, not even Saturday afternoons. On Sundays only had the milking to do, taking the milk to Rockford, walking carrying two cans. One can was three gallons, oblong, and one can was two gallons. They used to milk 14 cows in the summer by hand, no milking machines, no electric. He had help from Mrs Graham and sometimes Mr Graham. [pause] Sometimes all three milked. No white coats, but they washed their hands and washed down the cows. They scrubbed the milk containers with cold water and put them upside down on the wall outside. Milk was delivered and decanted into jugs around the houses in Rockford. On return the milk cans were washed in the house but the milking buckets were just washed in cold water. Milk was delivered in Rockford between half past eight and nine. They started milking at half past seven until about half past eight. People at the pub in Rockford wanted the milk for their breakfast. In those days milk didn't keep very long. Keeps about a fortnight today. In the summer on a hot thundery day it didn't keep overnight, they used to have to scald it after milking. Milk that was milked in the evening they made cream with, and the morning milk went to Rockford. But not all of it went to Rockford because they milked more than they needed to sell, so they made cream with that as well and fed the calves with the skimmed milk.

After walking to Rockford with the two containers he went from house to house filling jugs. He either walked in to pick up jugs or some people left their jugs outside the door, or a can. At one place, at Allerford (between Rockford and Brendon), the chap used to leave his can behind the wall at Rockford, by the bridge. He [the chap] would come down and pick it up so TL didn't used to see him. Then he used to go to the pub and see how much they wanted. People didn't used to have a lot of milk in those days. If you had two pints you had a lot, even the pub. He suppose they used to sell more beer. If people left jugs on the table he would go in [to fill them up] without them being there.

After milking, in the winter, he would clean out the shippons, feed up, tend up the cows, do the calves and feed them. In the summer you just turned them out and went haymaking or hoeing swedes or drilling potatoes, or whatever.

Only two worked on the farm. George Garnish was the horse man, he used to do the horses, the ploughing and all that. TL was the boy. He'd do the dragging, perhaps, with another horse. He did plough with horses when he [George Garnish] was ill one time. Then the tractor came along and TL was the 'boss', he was the tractor man. With the boss, Mr Graham, there were only three of them. When the tractor came along the horse man [George Garnish] went, he probably had to go. He went to Wingate to work on a farm there. [pause] TL thinks that's where he ended his days - TL's not sure whether he still worked with horses, he probably did general farm work then. However, [he knows] they didn't have a tractor at Wingate as he went ploughing there, so they probably did still have horses. George was a little short chap. TL reckons he was probably a bit peeved when tractors came in - 'progress doesn't suit everyone does it?' [Back to top]
 

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PAY / RECREATION / ROCKFORD PEOPLE / DR HEAD / FIREWORKS

TL doesn't know whether his brother the carpenter would rather have worked in Wilsham than travel seven miles to work. Maybe he wanted to be a carpenter - probably that was it. It was very convenient for TL to work there [Wilsham] - he could just roll out of bed and he was at work.

He enjoyed working, it was good to be earning money. He thought now he could buy some fireworks, because there was no pocket money while he was at school. Of course then the war came and there were no more fireworks.

He earned seven shillings [35p] a week. They didn't pay him for three weeks, then he got a guinea - one pound and one shilling [£1.05]. TL doesn't think he saved any and didn't pay his mother anything because he only slept at home, he would eat at the farm. In the evening he might play cards at home or the farm and then as he got older he spent the evenings at Rockford, walked across two or three fields and through the wood. Didn't get many women in the pubs in those days - you would play darts or shove halfpenny. Then they might walk up to Staghunters up the valley and back to Rockford again - 'just knocking out time, really.'

The pub was run by Ray Beesley. TL thinks his mother came down from Birmingham and took the pub - then he [Ray] got married and ran the pub for many years. He had three daughters, there's only one still living.

At the bottom of the hill, there was the Youth Hostel, a thriving business - for the place and for the pub really. Across the bridge you had what's called The Nook and then you had the pub and next door to that you had the doctor, Dr Head. He was the doctor for the area, he walked everywhere. Opposite the doctor was The Villa, the Mackays lived there, then Doone Cottage. That was Mr Bland, a retired policeman from Zanzibar with plenty of money. He spent £5 on fireworks one night, which was a fortune. Then Green Tiles. He doesn't remember who lived there, it changed hands many times. That was Rockford.

The doctor was TL's doctor. TL used to go with the milk and say he had a cold and the doctor used to make him up some medicine. He used to make up his own medicines. The doctor's patch went all the way to Broomstreet (near Culbone). TL thinks the doctor had a car but he didn't drive it much, he can never remember him driving a car. Dr Mold from Lynton used to do this area as well, he came to Brendon twice a week on Tuesdays and Fridays. Dr Head was a long long time ago before Dr Mold came [1n 1953]. Dr Head was here before and during the war. TL can't remember when he died, probably in the late '40s. He doesn't know if Dr Head was brought up in the area or any of his past history.

When Mr Bland bought his £5 worth of fireworks they had a bonfire and fireworks display on Guy Fawkes night which they hadn't seen before. The only time you could get fireworks was around Guy Fawkes night. [Back to top]
 

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FATHER'S JOB / TAKING IN WASHING / FATHER / CHURCH / PARENTS' SOCIAL LIFE / GAMES / STAGHUNTERS / RECREATION GROUND

[phone rings] His father used to work at Scob Hill quarry cracking stones for the roads, hard work. They used to wear glasses with a square mesh to stop the chips going in their eyes. TL doesn't know why he changed jobs, he stayed with the council until he retired. TL reckons his father was all right. He [his father] used to take a buckle strap to him sometimes but could never catch him. He doesn't know which end, as he never caught him.

His mother was a very gentle lady. She never got upset, never drunk, never smoked, never swore, She would help anybody. She was a model person. She used to take in washing from Glenthorne and even when he was at school she used to take in washing for Mrs Tattersall at Barton Farm cottage. The grocer used to bring it and take it back. The Glenthorne washing was before TL was born. She did the washing, looked after Mr Reed and looked after them. [pause] It was a hard life, no electric, no sanitation, no running water. He doesn't know what she'd think now.

The house was nice. Cold, mind, no rayburn, no central heating then. Heating was from a black open range and a fire in the sitting room in the winter time. When they came down in the morning it was like ice again, cold. They had a primus to boil the kettle with in the morning before the fire got up. Dad used to go to work about seven so mother had to be up early to get his breakfast and fill his Thermos, cut his sandwiches. TL took sandwiches to school as well. They probably had meat in them because they used to eat a lot of meat then. Meat came from the butcher and they used to kill their own pig one time.

Dad was the church warden and gravedigger. TL had to go to church every Sunday unless he could get out of it, he used to hide away when they were just setting off to church. There was Sunday School as well at the school they went to all week, at eleven o'clock. They had to go there, and then in the afternoon to church over here [Countisbury]. Dad dug the graves on his own. He took the collection [pause] when they used to put a penny in the collection then, he expects.

His parents had little social life. They listened to the radio. [pause] They used to go to whist drives and dances at Brendon, at least his mother went to the whist drives and stayed for the dance as well. You'd walk down in your wellingtons in the dark and carry your shoes and change when you got there.

[When not in the pubs] TL would play cards or games, things like bridge, snakes and ladders or ludo. He played a lot of three handed bridge with Mr Graham and his wife.

The Staghunters at Brendon was run by Mr Totterdale [?sp]. TL didn't like it as a pub.

He used to go to the recreation ground at Park House, where the swing and see-saw were, where a lot of kids and the young girls used to collect. They'd congregate there in the evenings as well. [Back to top]
 

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MISS DARKER / FATHER-IN-LAW LIGHTHOUSE KEEPER / WIFE BARBARA'S BACKGROUND

Miss Darker, at Desolate, was an eccentric, knowledgeable. She had a pilot's licence, he believes. She used to maintain her own vehicles [pause] not knowing the sort of money her house would have made [laughs]. Her house was sold about three years ago, he supposes for £380,000, for a wreck - about a year after she died. [BJ queries whether it was sold last year]. There was a guide price of £200,000. He said they must be joking to think that the place was worth that and it made £380,000 - and they probably spent another £50,000 to £60,000 on it anyway. He doesn't know who she left it to but there was a Miss Potter who used to come with her very often. She was a great friend he thinks, whether she had it he wouldn't have a clue.

He worked at the farm for 11 or 12 years - 1951 he started on the buses. He lived at home until he got married in 1951. Change of job not connected with getting married although he was courting at the time - he wanted a change and probably more money and a day off once a week.

His wife came from the lighthouse. He always called her a gypsy because she was a lighthouse-keeper's daughter and she was never in one place very long. He met her at the school dance in 1947. Her parents came to Lynmouth Foreland when she was nine months old. When she was five they had to move because of her schooling so they went to Strumble Head lighthouse up at Fishguard, She went to school in Fishguard until she was 14 - then they moved to Whitby in Yorkshire and she went to school there for a year. Then he [Barbara's father] was moved back to Lynmouth Foreland again - she hadn't finished her schooling so she went to Portsmouth with her auntie and finished her schooling there. Then when she'd finished she came back here and went to work for the Electric Light Company in Lynmouth. She used to walk from the Foreland every morning to Lynmouth. He didn't know Barbara when they were first here. Her father's name was Fred Roberts. They were related to Grace Darling - one of her great grandfathers married one of the Darlings. [Back to top]