CD2

(73 mins)
 

2/1

LYNMOUTH FLOOD / ESCAPING FROM PO / OTHER RESCUES

He was 17 at the time of the flood. The sound was very deafening. The whole valley was rushing water and thunder and lightning. It was one of those electric storms like day, flip, flip, flip. [BJ asks about when they were rescuing the post office] you don't really stop and listen to the noise when you're doing something like that, you hop it as quick as you can. They were more occupied with [tails off]. They had 5 feet 10 of water, 3 feet 6 of mud and one wall down at the end. Honestly and truly, he really wasn't frightened. It sound silly, he was young and didn't see the damage. [It's not] until afterwards it strikes you. They had to evacuate over the roofs from the house above, and they had a candle on the stairs to see how high the water was coming up.

They were helped by a chap who was staying with them, called Jim [Foster]. He was on his honeymoon and staying at Myrtleberry. He came down with them and spent the night. He came to see JP only about 3 weeks ago. Still large as life. [BJ queries the mention of Myrtleberry. JP clarifies that the man was staying at Sinai Hotel, he and Pauline bought Myrtleberry later].

They climbed out of the skylight and got into the house above the post office, which was a stone house and didn't seem at all dangerous. Then they had a problem with the cottage next to the post office. There were 2 elderly people in there. Bill Ward, he was the last coxswain of the lifeboat. The water had got in and they had 3 young children in there, from across the other side of the road for safety. And of course the water had got in and the furniture had all started floating about and they couldn't get out the door or anything. So they [added later - JP and his father, Jim Foster and Jack Clapp from Island Cottage] climbed over the roof and went through the house next door and formed a human chain and smashed the windows and got those people out. Then they went up to the house next door to the post office, they went back over the roof again to be there. And as he said, they had this candle on the stairs, and while they were doing it there was this tremendous crash and he said to his father 'that's got to be the Rhenish Tower,' and he said 'if that's the Rhenish Tower, there isn't much of Lynmouth left.'

Anyway, they had collected quite a few elderly people since before the tree trunk in the house. One chap was 80, Cookie. They decided the water was coming up, the candle was 2 steps from the top of the flight of stairs and they'd watched the water coming up and they thought, 'well, it's time we went.' So they decided to evacuate over the roof and up into the cottage under the wall of Lynmouth Hill, Prospect Cottage. They all got the ladies out, everybody else out, and his father and he were left with this man Cook. The window was on top of this worktop, not modern things as they are today, and it was a casement window, they opened it. And he was out on the roof and his father was inside and they got him [Cookie] stuck. And they didn't know what they were going to do because they couldn't move him. In the end they got a bit desperate and his father pushed and JP pulled, and he'd got his trousers stuck on the button to latch the window. And they ripped his trousers off, poor old chap.

Anyway, they got over that, and then they went up under Lynmouth Hill and virtually spent the rest of the night tucked away under the hill there. [Back to top]
 

2/2

FATHER' HEALTH / HOME FROM SEA / CARILLON TUBES / POST-FLOOD / MRS LOOSEMORE / DELIVERING TELEGRAMS / LABOURING

His father's health never really recovered. He was all right then. He'd had angina for a long time, but he really didn't get better after that. And he was on the West Somerset and North Devon Relief Fund, they used to meet in South Molton, and he had a stroke during the meeting and he, sadly, he never really recovered. JP was still going to sea for a fair while and he went to see if he could come ashore - you had to be at sea for 7 years in those days, or else you had to do your national service - and he sat a tribunal to see if he could be released from the last year or so and come home, which he did do, and ran the business for him.

He was quite bored the first winter home from sea, and he re-hung the carillon tubes in Lynmouth church. Because they were all tatty and hadn't been rung and the ropes hadn't been spliced, and he thought he could do that. They decided they would play the carillon tubes on Christmas Eve, on the midnight service. He [JP] decided really, but Geoff Wakeham helped him. He told his father to leave the windows open because he was going to have a go at the bells, and he couldn't have liked he sound of it because he died while he was playing them. So Dr Mold [a fellow contributor to the archive] came in and got him out of church. So that was his first Christmas home from sea for 7 years [laughs]. Yes.

The day after the flood, when the water had gone down, he was very keen to get all the mud cleared out of the post office. He remembers in the first light of dawn walking down through Lynmouth Street, typical of him, there were a few pools in Lynmouth Street, and in one of the pools was a massive great trout. He was thrilled about that, but he thought he deserved a break, so he put him back in the river [laughs].

The first day was gathering yourself together because it was really quite horrific. A chap called Roy Pugsley, a local boy, who's still about now. He's JP's age, a bit older perhaps. They set themselves out doing the best they could. There was one house, Island Cottage [amended later to Nelson Cottage], which was owned by some people, Loosemore. He'd taken the staff home from the tea gardens and was cut off on the other side of the river, and she was on her own. And so she asked them if they'd go up a ladder into the house that was cut in half and go into her bedroom and throw all her money out the window. So Roy and he got up in this room and it was all in the wardrobe and everywhere, and she told them to wrap it up and tie it up in sheets and chuck it out the window [laughs], which is what they did. He doesn't know how much money there was, it seemed a lot to them.

Then the 2 days after that he spent delivering telegrams. Because his father had set the post office up for pension purposes and everything in the town hall, so people could get the pensions with a Lynmouth stamp. There were so many people sending telegrams, 'are you all right?', 'are you well?', because the telephone lines had gone down. So he and a chap called Mr Galliford, he thinks they did over 247 telegrams in a couple of days to people around.

Then the forces came in, the Salvation Army first, wonderfully. There was work for everybody, as you can imagine. He worked for 2 or 3 weeks, or a month, as a labourer for Hobbs Brothers. Desmond, the son, is the undertaker here now [Lynton and Lynmouth], and the family are still here, very well ensconced. He did labouring, it nearly killed him [laughs]. He was on a lorry going round loading sand off the beach for cement, all sorts of things, in Lynmouth. [Back to top]
 

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CLEARING UP / FLOATING BOTTLES / FATHER'S RING / INSURANCE / FATHER'S WARTIME COUNCIL CHAIRMANSHIP / COMPENSATION CLAIMS / FATHER'S PUBLIC POSITION / NORTH DEVON AND WEST SOMERSET RELIEF FUND

[BJ asks about what is was like watching the machinery being set in motion for clearing everything up.] He supposes really he was too young or disinterested to take too much notice. The army came and everybody came and Devon County Council and the Fire Brigade cleared the post office out. When they had the tree trunk through the wall, next door, up river, was the Lyn Valley Hotel site and that had a pub next to it. This tree trunk came through the back of the hotel and split open where they keep the wine, so all these bottles came floating into the post office. So obvious they were very keen, when they started finding bottles. Of course the labels had washed off. They all had a rather good time, the youngsters there. Roy Pugsley helped him dig out the post office, it was him and the Fire Brigade.

When his father was getting out through the skylight he lost his ring. And in all that mud JP found that ring. He was delighted. He was looking for it, he knew it must be in the back room somewhere. But the number of gold drawing pins that were washed up and he thought he'd found it [laughs], it was unbelievable. His father was quite overcome by that.

You put 5ft 10 of water through a shop and store, and there's nothing much left. Of course everything was ruined. Postcards, pottery, books, everything. Sweets. Interestingly enough, hardly anybody had insurance for floods in Lynmouth. It strange now, they are all covered now of course. They were insured only for £300 money in the safe. And when the water came in they bolted and left the safe door open. They claimed for the full amount. It might have been more, it might have been less, he's not quite sure. And the insurance assessor came and said, 'well, you heard the water come in why didn't you close the safe door?' And his father said, 'well, if you give me a pot of paint I'd have painted it at the same time.' [laughs].

His father was chairman of the council for 6, 7 years, all through the war. Nobody would take the job in the war because Lord Haw Haw said he was going to hang the mayors of the towns. They would be the first to be hung on the town hall steps. Nobody would take the job as mayor, but his father did it all through the war.

[BJ asks about compensation] The generosity of the people was overwhelming. It was fantastic. He feels that at the end everybody was well looked after or more than well looked after. The difficulty was that if you had a house washed away, what would you claim for? What have you lost? You don't know, do you? You cannot remember. And there were the genuine people who sat down to try and remember room by room what they'd lost, and the other charlatans who got a Sotheby's catalogue and said they'd lost a Sheraton bureau and this, that and the next thing, and of course nobody could say one way or the other. There was a lot of [tails off]. But there was compensation for loss of profits, there was compensation for everything. He can remember the Tors Hotel put in a claim for something like £30,000. That's when his father had his stroke really, he [his father] said he can always remember the water going up a long way but he can never remember it getting as far as the Tors Hotel [laughs].

Oh yes, his father got the correct amount of compensation, and there was no problem. It was fine. But obviously in his public position of being on the committee he had to be very sensibly cautious, and genuine, which JP is sure he always was anyway. But a lot of people did quite well out of it. No, it didn't create ill feeling afterwards because the people who, for the sake of a better word, made a killing, packed up and left the area, whereas the genuine locals stayed.

His father was on the North Devon and West Somerset Relief Fund. It was chaired by Lord Fortescue. JP's wife is on it now. It has always been called the North Devon and West Somerset Relief Fund, because it went down nearly to Crediton. It included Dulverton and everywhere else. They meet twice a year because a lot of people were offered a pension for life, or 3 times the amount of their loss, if they'd lost a house or anything else. Some took one, some the other. And now all the recipients of pensions have ceased there is a residual left as a charity, with the Charity Commissioners, and they dispense that as best they feel fit, twice a year. They don't give more than £1000 to any one thing, but the churches, and the people with genuine needs get some money. He thinks Exford Village Hall had some. [BJ says they gave some money to the oral history project].

He doesn't think the fund really came active until there were no more recipients. Then they had a fixed figure and knew what interest they'd got and could deal with it. He really can't speak with great authority about it, Pauline seems to be better at it than he is. If anyone wants to make an application they ring her and she generally goes and has a look, and brings the case forward as she feels fit. [Back to top]
 

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WEST BUCKLAND / MERCHANT NAVY / COMING HOME / COASTAL SERVICE / LEAVING SEA / LOCAL GOVERNMENT / PO / MEETING PAULINE / RUNNING PO WITH MOTHER / BUILDING BUNGALOW / CHANGING SHOP / YOUNG HAVE NEW IDEAS / COLD WAR / DOCTORS / STEPHANIE'S BIRTH

He went back to West Buckland for one term, and studied navigation, funnily enough [laughs]. Not very well. He was unsettled, and he felt that to burden his family with the expenses of going possibly to university and another year at school was possibly more than they could manage. And so he felt it was time for him to set out in the world on his own, which is what he did.

He was 6 years with the merchant navy, on the coast and the foreign-going. Dr Nightingale, who was the doctor there then, when he was home on leave got him to come in and said, 'look, I think you ought to do your best to come ashore. Your mother's on her own and your father's not very well. And if you're in the middle of the Pacific or something, you're not going to be much help'. Of course communications weren't like they are today. He told him to think about doing something different. So JP then came home on the coast. He used to be mate of a coaster in the winter, and then he'd come home and run his father's business for the summer. And then, as he said, a couple of Christmases after that he died, Christmas Eve.

When he came home and was on the coast that was still the merchant navy. He wasn't foreign-going, he was coast-wise. So he could do the 2 jobs for a while. He was 25, 26, something like that when his father died. He didn't feel very old. '59, he was 24. He was still at sea when he died. He said he was coming home and had to register and go before a tribunal. He had to have a medical first and said he'd go in the marines. Which is what he passed all out for, hoping he'd never have to go when he sat the tribunal, but they were very understanding and said 'fine'.

When he came back, he used to facetiously say that the local people were as narrow as the valley they lived in. But he soon went in the public game, and went on the council and got involved in local government really, quite a lot.

They lived above the post office when he came back, in what is called Clifton House, immediately above the post office because he just had to go downstairs and he was in the business. After the post office got damaged in the flood obviously the wall was put right and it was altered because that was the front door in those days, where it came through, and they re-structured it a bit. It doesn't look like it now. He can take BJ and show her the marks on the wall. People find it hard to believe what he says. They think he's talking a lot of rubbish, but he's not really. His wife and he lived above the post office when they were first married. She was the midwife at the hospital in Lynton and she came down to be the midwife, and he'd had a summer off to run the business with his father and he brought her a casualty in from the cricket, being one of the few people who had a car in those days, which was his father's of course. He brought him into the Cottage Hospital.

That was very good. That was, what, 44 years ago? It must have been 46 years ago because they married 2 years afterwards [laughs].

He ran the post office with his mother. She left the hotel and sold the hotel, and she did the post office. While his father was still poorly they built the bungalow and sold the hotel, and a few rights of way and problems which are still lurking in the background. They shifted down there and his parents had 14 months together before he died.

He can't remember having any difficulty getting permission to build the bungalow. Lynmouth became part of the national park in '54, in the planning act. Yes, it would have been part of the national park [when they built the bungalow].

Yes, when he ran the shop and post office with his mother he changed things, quite dramatically. When you're young you've got new ideas. Like his daughter [word indistinct] who's taken over their business now. They make him sick, they do so well [laughs]. He was probably the same to his father. He supposes he changed the traditional layout, stands and things, and lighting. Running it with his mother worked very well. They got on very well. He'd do the shop and she'd do the post office. His wife continued as a midwife only for a short while, and then they had their eldest daughter. She went back occasionally and she took civil defence courses when they were going to get blown up, things like that. When the cold war between Russia was quite tense.

His doctor was Dr Nightingale then, because he brought one of their children into the world. And latterly Dr Mold. Their second daughter was born in a power cut in a storm at Clifton House, above the post office. And that was Dr Mold. Dr Mold was their doctor who tended to his father, when he died. But they were married before that. Dr Mold stayed their doctor until he retired, now it's Dr Frankish.

He wasn't buzzing about really [at the time of the home birth], but it was an experience. Stephanie, their middle daughter, is always very proud to say she's one of the very few youngsters who's been born in Lynmouth, because it was all Lynton Hospital in those days. [Back to top]
 

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PUBLIC SERVICE / TOWN COUNCIL / PLANNING / LOCAL GOVERNMENT REORGANISATION / NEW DISTRICT COUNCIL / NATIONAL PARK COMMITTEE / INTERVIEWING NATIONAL PARK OFFICERS / GENTLEMEN v PLAYERS / EXMOOR SOIL / PLANNING APPEALS / URBAN DISTRICT / MAYOR / CHAIRMANSHIPS

His involvement in public service started before his father died. Very soon after he came home from sea permanently he fought a by-election on the town council and got in. He served the town council for 40 years and then stood down, because he was getting a bit snide and thought he wasn't a constructive councillor any more because he'd seen it all before. From there he did the chairman of the urban district for 4 years, and he was governor of the North Devon Technical College in those days, and he sat on the Devon Education Authority for a little bit and swore he'd never have anything to do with planning. And then the next thing he knew they'd made him chairman of planning, local chairman of planning. And then he was involved and experienced for about 4 years in the local government reorganisation in 1972, where they split the National Park away. The new Local Government Act.

He became a member of the North Devon District Council then. That was the '74 act, yes. But it needed an awful lot of arranging before and meeting and who they were going to go with. At one time they (the town council) thought they were going to go with Williton and try and change the boundary, because they couldn't align themselves with Barnstaple at that time. Anyway, that didn't happen. But Thomas Trollope-Bellew came over with Williton Rural District to try and persuade them to go with them, but that wasn't to be. When the new district councils were formed JP was the first chairman of establishments, or personnel. He sat as personnel for 2 years, and as a member for the National Park. Then he became chairman of the district council for 2 years, and vice-chairman of the National Park, and chairman of planning - of both [district council and NP], after he'd finished as chairman. This was the new National Park Authority, well the almost new, last but one [there's been a further local government reorganisation since].

He enjoyed that very much. That was when Dare Wilson [was national park officer]. Thomas Trollop-Bellew was chairman for a while. He was trying to think who before him, he was a lovely fellow. George Wyndham was on the committee, it might have been George. Air Vice-Marshal Leonard Williams was after, he got on very well with him. It must have been George Wyndham. They struggled. They had the reds in the bracken in those days. The chap from North Molton, who accused Malcolm MacEwen of being a red in the bracken. Yes, Maurice Whinney. He was nice, he liked him very much. A fine artist wasn't he? A fine portrait artist.

That was when Penny Phillips [Leader of Somerset County Council] was the guiding force. He liked her. He had quite a pleasant time really.

He was there at its inception. They interviewed Dare Wilson and Dr Curtis, who followed him. The 2 national park officers. He was involved in both interviews. He thinks Dare Wilson was rather pre-organised by Somerset County Council. Leonard Curtis, by then they felt they should be breaking off a few of the fettles [fetters] of Somerset County Council and that was more open. He remembers asking him what he thought he knew of Lynton and Lynmouth and he absolutely shattered JP by saying 'well of course Mr Pedder I was married in Lynmouth church.' [laughs]

[BJ asks whether there was conflict] He always used to liken the Exmoor National Park in those days as the gentleman v the players, in the cricket. Because everybody on the park from West Somerset appeared to be a gentleman, or of that ilk, and everybody from North Devon who was on the park were working people. And he always used to say it was in the soil, because down in West Somerset you could almost eat it, whereas up there it's black and peaty and full of acid. He always used to put the difference down to the soil.

But he got on very well with Leonard Williams, the Air Vice-Marshall. He used to take him and his wife out fishing in the boat.

No, he hadn't been on the Devon Committee of the National Park, pre-1974. But he used to represent Lynton and Lynmouth with any planning appeals or anything. They used to meet in Barnstaple. And he got quite well known, so much so that when they closed down before the new one Sir Dennis Stuckley invited Pauline and him to a reception with the rest of them, at Hartland Abbey, which was very nice. Dennis Stuckley was chairman of the Devon Committee.

Before reorganisation in '74 they had a chairman of the urban district. And he was chairman of the urban district for 4 years and then after that he was mayor, not immediately, but he was mayor for 2 years. He felt it, being Mayor of Lynton, because they didn't have the powers an urban district had in those days. The urban district had highway powers, and all sorts of powers. He rather felt it was a bit demeaning really for the community. He'd been chairman of the district, chairman of planning of the district council for 7 years and chairman of environmental health, and chairman of amenities, and vice-chairman of finance, all in 14 years [laughs]. And he never sat on the district council without being chairman of something all the time he was there. Rather like his form prize, which he'd been telling BJ about earlier. He learnt a lot and had great experience in that [district council]. And coming back to town council, having had a modicum of power, he found it a bit frustrating. [Back to top]
 

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THE CHAIN GANG / FORMALITY / NEW CABINET SYSTEM / POLITICAL COUNCILS / LEAVING COUNCIL / OTHER INVOLVEMENTS / INLAND REVENUE / LEADER / CHURCH WARDEN / FREEMASONS' BROTHERHOOD / GRANTS / PUBLICITY

They used to call them the chain gang, when all the mayors used to meet. Wearing the chain is an honour. He hopes it always will be considered as an honour, but he thinks it's having less and less significance as time goes on.

[BJ asks about the formality of being called 'Councillor Pedder', with local press referring to them as 'Councillor'] A councillor is a person from who you seek counsel, is that right? He doesn't suppose there is a better title. It's a levelling. One way or the other, it makes you all appear the same, which is how you should be really. He doesn't think he'd be able to put up with the new cabinet system that they've got now. There's only about 5 people who run the district, he doesn't know why the rest of them are there. There's the Liberals and a couple of Conservatives and a couple of Independents. He believes there is a socialist on the district, he's not quite sure. They form a cabinet and they make all the decisions. He doesn't think anyone can break into it.

He's not against political councils because since the North Devon District Council has gone from independent to political he thinks they've worked wonders. They've had a unified approach, they haven't been falling out amongst themselves. And there's been great progress in Barnstaple. He knows it's still a bomb site, as they say, surrounded by a traffic jam, but it isn't really. They've done an awful lot and he admires them tremendously for their progress in that direction. But he thinks that by pulling it into cabinets they take it just a step too far and a lot of councillors are wondering why they're there.

He's stepped down from the council. He does things now which he doesn't talk about very much. He sits on industrial tribunals in Exeter, which he has sat on since 1976. And he chairs the Commissioners for Inland Revenue, which he has done since '76. That's now under a very big reorganisation because of self-assessments. He's quite enjoyed both of those. He found the former very stimulating, because they are always contested and he enjoys that, and the latter was a bit of an honour at one time. But now they haven't got much work.

He did chair Leader, the European funding for Exmoor, for 2 or 3 years. As he's said, he's church warden of 2 churches, he does lots of little local things. [BJ asks what are the things he doesn't talk about] He doesn't tell people he's a commissioner for Inland Revenue, particularly [laughs]. He doesn't think you win any friends by doing that, although you are an adjudicator between the Inland Revenue and the individual. He's always found, certainly the division he sat on, that it has been extremely fair. He's a Mason.

He's chairman of the trustees of their lodge, and chaplain of their lodge. He's been there quite a while, second or third oldest [longest] and he's always found it a fine organisation. He can't understand why people do knock it, probably through ignorance, but they do a wonderful amount of work which they don't shout from the rooftops. And it's a fine brotherhood. He's always stuck to that. In fact if he was put to the test he'd be hard put to decide whether he'd give up the church or the lodge, really. It does so much good.

He supposes that as far as the church is concerned they worship their god, Lord Jesus, but as far as the Freemasons are concerned you worship the Great Architect of the Universe. But it's a more open way. A Mohammedan or whoever can join. It's quite a strict religion in its way and does nothing but good for everybody else. In what way?  Well, hardship, liaison, illness. Let him give BJ an idea. They gave £29,000 to the green welly fund [in response to the foot and mouth crisis]. Nobody knew about it, but the government promised to pay penny for penny but they wouldn't do it, because they said it was an organisation. And they gave £216,000 to Ely Cathedral. Nobody knew it happened. They gave a million and a quarter to the hospice movement. And at the presentation of the money there wasn't one press man there. They were invited, but they didn't attend. The list goes on and on, really, but they're not all bad.

Whether the lack of publicity is their own fault is a very good point, because there is a move afoot nationally to try and redress that in some way. Because they've been slated and slated and slated, which they have actually, and they never answer. That's their creed, they don't enter the bull ring. But they are going to make one or two releases about things they have been doing, from next June he thinks, in certain circles.

He doesn't know why he joined. It was a long long time ago. He rather felt it was a movement to belong to in those days and nothing really has made him change his mind. [BJ asks if they are low profile how did he know there was a local group he could join]. His father was a Mason, not as active as JP. They've got a lovely Masonic Hall in Lynton. Really very nice. It's the old Methodist church. It's their centenary in 3 years' time he thinks. [Back to top]
 

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EXMOOR PEOPLE'S ORGANISATION / PRESSURES OF COMBINING BUINESS, PUBLIC AND HOME LIFE / SUPPORTIVE WIFE / LEAVING DISTRICT COUNCIL / FAMILY BUSINESSES / DAUGHTERS / RETIREMENT FUND / EXPANDING

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He's also on the Exmoor People's Organisation. They [added later - Tom Yandle, Keith Ross, Malcolm Yeo, Bill Pugsley etc] founded the Exmoor People's Organisation, as young bloods. Dormant but not dead, they say. It really was a kick at people like Malcolm MacEwen (on the national park committee), people like that, and the Exmoor Society person, Guy Somerset, who denigrated a lot of things on Exmoor and was trying to run Exmoor from the sidelines. He thinks a lot of what they did was good, but he thinks it got to a peak where something had to be done and they formed this organisation. It's still in being. They had a meeting a couple of months ago. They've got a little bit of money and they were deciding best where to put it. It's not quite so simple as it sounds because a lot of organisations where you can place money on Exmoor are either West Somerset or North Devon, there doesn't seem to be a fair share which spreads over the boundary. And that is their dilemma at the moment.

He didn't get the group together. He was asked to chair it. But as he said, the purpose of the group was to form a foil to people trying to do things on Exmoor which look good but which may not necessarily be the best for the people who live and work on the moorland.

[BJ asks how he managed to be on so many committees all at the same time; how did he manage to lead his own life within that, or was that his life]. That's an absolutely super and sensible question and it's why he stepped down from the district council really. It's a very hard thing to run a business life with an active public life, with a happy home life. And the most important is a happy home life, without doubt. He has been tremendously fortunate in having a lovely wife who has stood by him. He sat down and wrote a list of the good reasons and the bad reasons and realised the reasons why he should not continue public work far outweighed the reasons why he should and he stood down from the district council. Because he had 7 businesses in Lynton. Apart from Myrtleberry [where recording is taking place] and the self-catering and bits and pieces elsewhere, flats and things.

They had 7 businesses at one time. They had the post office at Lynmouth; a shop down the road called Cartwheels, which was just down the other end of Lynmouth Street; then they had the off-licence in Lynton, The Old Coachhouse. They had the shoe shop, which was called The Cobbler; and Lady Sarah, which was the dress shop; and The Countryman, which was next door. They had E J Pedder, the newsagents. And then they had the Willow Patterns, which is the shop on the side of the hill. And around the corner for a short while they had one which was called The Ladywell. That was quite a lot of work. But they kept them all together. They haven't sold any. They've leased them off as part of their retirement fund. Three of them have gone to 2 of their daughters. Since then they've bought another 3. They have given the girls one each because they've got 3 daughters. One is The Sheepskin Shop. It's run by Carla, the lady who has always run it, but she's renting it, it's his daughter's shop really.

Yes, he was expanding all that at the same time as he was on all the committees. He was over-ambitious, really. Fortunately it never caused any friction amongst the family at all. Everybody was tremendously supportive and he was very lucky, staff and all. Because all their staff always stay with them, which is marvellous, they're even with his daughters now. Four of the businesses are leased from them now, and run independently, and the girls have the other three. There's another one on the side of the hill now, called Pots Unlimited, that's theirs as well. [Back to top]
 

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DAUGHTERS / MYRTLEBERRY / WIFE PAULINE A MAGISTRATE / MOVING TO BUNGALOW / SELF-CATERING / FISHING / SOLACE OF MYRTLEBERRY / BOAT / FAMILY PICNICS AT SILLERY SANDS / FAMILY / DAUGHTERS' EDUCATION / WALKING / SHOOTING / HEALTH / HOLIDAYS

[BJ asks if he had all these businesses going at the time he went up the river with his family and tickled the trout] Well, he was building up then. He supposes it was a few years ago now. It must have been because they've got a photo next door of them doing it. It was his eldest daughter's last day free before she went to Edgehill College. So it was a long time ago now, she's a homeopathic doctor now. One of his other daughters married a farmer at East Middleton, Smythe, and she's running the clothes shop and the Willow Pattern shop with great distinction [laughs]. The other one, Stephanie, the middle daughter is running the newsagents and booksellers and has now become a florist. She's doing an awful lot in flowers. Which he's pleased about.

Myrtleberry [surrounded by National Trust woodland] is the only freehold property in the National Trust. Lovely, isn't it? [laughs]. They took it over 38 years ago, as a ruin. There was a bankrupt who lived there who wired and fenced himself in and it was in a dreadful state. But they bought it with every last farthing they could create at a ridiculously reasonable sum now. They set aboard [about] putting it right, which has been a labour of love really and they have a fine property.

His wife is a magistrate. She spends the rest of her time supporting him and doing the garden, which she loves. He doesn't know how much longer they will be able to be there, but [tails off]. Pauline has to retire from the bench this year, she's 70, and a garden like theirs, with the self-catering just doesn't run itself. They think that if they do another 3 years there they might be thinking about moving on. They would move back to their mother's bungalow.

There is a self-catering bungalow in the grounds there [at Myrtleberry], quite a big one, and half the house upstairs. They are quite big, quite nice properties, in good condition. People went out yesterday and they are full up, completely, from February to November. They don't advertise, they never advertise. They are very lucky. Because everybody comes back. Thirty-six years without a break is the record, but several come in the 30s [number of return visits], come every year, book ad infinitum.

They had 2 or 3 cancellations this year through foot and mouth because you could only walk down to the next bridge and up to this bridge. But most of the cancellations have booked to come again and they were considerably lucky compared to most people. They must have been good people in the last world, he thinks [laughs].

He still fishes. Not so much as he did. He had 6 salmon over the wall, outside the house this year, and a few trout. They have the fishing rights. And he goes to Wimbleball Lake a bit, and Blakewell in Barnstaple. He enjoys his fishing. He's getting a bit lazy now and doesn't go as often as he should.

The fishing isn't necessarily an antidote to his public life, but this place [Myrtleberry] has been. To come home loaded with troubles, you've had to sack the chief executive or something, and to walk the valley just with the dog, it's wonderful. That's been the saviour. If you lived in close it would have been very difficult.

They had a boat. When he first came home from sea he had to have a boat. They had a boat in the harbour. For 29/30 years. Two boats really, which he used to use for pleasure. Fishing, he wasn't a good sailor. He had a Drascombe lugger at the end, which he used to fish with but they didn't sail a lot. He used to get up at 5 o'clock in the morning, when the tides were right, and go out and fish. Come back at 7 and open the post office and do the rest of the day's work [laughs]. He'd catch pollack, bass, conger, mackerel. Anything that seemed to be floating about at the time really. He'd give a lot away, mostly, and he'd eat it and put a lot in the deep freeze. He's very fortunate with his 3 son-in-laws, they're wonderful people. They are a family which gets on remarkably well. He used to go out fishing with the middle son-in-law and they'd do quite well. He remembers him catching quite a large conger on one occasion and JP said to him, 'if that conger's coming in the boat I'm getting out' [laughs]. Their wives warned them, if they bring any more fish home [laughs] they're going to make a point of it. But they've had some wonderful times, fishing. And sailing.

They used to, when the girls were young, take the boat and go to Sillery Sands, which is pretty inaccessible, under the Foreland thing. And then they'd go ashore and put their picnic stuff down and make a fire of driftwood, and go round the bay and catch mackerel and come in and cook them. The girls always remember those days.

All three girls went to Edgehill, because they didn't take girls at West Buckland until the last girl finished her last term. And then the next term they started taking girls [laughs]. But they were quite well educated, no complaints.

He uses Exmoor [as a resource] in every way possible really. They walk a lot, more than you'd think looking at his hulk. But they do walk a lot, and they travel a lot. And he shot through the winter, for the last 8 years, up until this year. He shoots over at East Anstey, the Woodbridge shoot. Not a big 1000 bird effort, but they put down about 700 birds and tend them. It's quite a lovely little shoot, which he loves. But last winter he started losing his balance and thought he was getting a bit dangerous, so he stopped on the last couple of shoots at the beginning of this year. He couldn't make out why he was getting dizzy. they the doctor suggested he had a test and said JP had diabetes and had to be a bit careful. It confirmed what he was worried about and couldn't understand.

Originally their holidays were in the Scilly Isles. They spent their honeymoon on the Scilly Isles and the girls all grew up on them, which they loved. Latterly, once the girls had split [gone their own way], they became Francophiles and they are very fond of France. They have very good French friends and are very blessed in that direction. They go on holiday with them. They give them a history tour of France, and of course all the wine places. [Back to top]
 

2/9

EVENING OCCUPATION / FEELING GUILTY / DEBT TO SOCIETY / FRIENDSHIPS THROUGH PUBLIC LIFE / PRIVILEGES / SIGNIFICANCE OF FLOOD DISASTER / REFLECTIONS / STICKABILITY / FAMILY SUPPORT / MAKING ENEMIES / LYNTON MUSEUM / FAMILY

At home in the evening they would read a fair bit [laughs]. His wife does the crosswords, most of the time. They have the Times and the Western Morning News, but she finds the WMN crossword more difficult than the Times. He reads, sleeps a bit, he's afraid. For most of his life it's been catching on minutes [of meetings]. But they enjoy reading, music.

Having that extra time now is marvellous [laughs]. This last summer has been the best summer he has had in his life. Really. Every morning he used to wake up and think what he had to do that day, he had to go to this and that. Now it's perhaps only once a week life has been wonderful. It's been marvellous really. No, he doesn't regret that he filled his life up so much before, quite the reverse really. It makes him feel very guilty that he should be doing something, a bit more than what he is doing. He really does. In fact it took him a long time to settle down. He felt he must really be doing something. But Pauline thinks he's paid his debt to society and he should be looking after himself a bit. What he thinks all depends what's on. Sometimes he looks at it and thinks he should be there sorting that lot out, and sometimes he thinks thank God he's not.

But the great thing about local government, and public participation, is he's made an awful lot of friends, and an awful lot of acquaintances who he would never have met. He was privileged when he stepped down as chairman of the governors of West Buckland school. Lady Arran said, 'John choose 50 friends and I'll throw a party for you at Castle Hill.' Which was quite an honour really, and rather nice. So through public life they've had great privileges, and been able to take all their daughters to the garden party, and have met the Queen and Prince Philip at a cocktail party on the Royal Yacht Britannia. They've had great privileges which they would never have otherwise had.

Looking back over his life so far, he supposes the flood disaster would first spring to mind as the most memorable thing, because it was the first dateline for Lynton and Lynmouth. Everything happened before the flood, or after the flood. Other than that, he thinks he's enjoyed the privileges as they've come along. He can't really think of anything.

[BJ asks if he has any regrets]. No he doesn't think so. You can't do everything in life. He thinks he's been particularly fortunate in what he's done really. And in a small way reasonably successful. He thinks one of his big traits was stickability, he'd never let things go. He wasn't 5 minutes in and 'no, I'm not doing that,' really. He thinks that has held them good. And he's had admirable family support in every direction.

Oh yes, he's made enemies [laughs]. It's never pleasant, is it? He's sacked one chief executive, 2 headmasters. But you're the chap who's got to do it, if you feel it's right. He's been ably supported in the main.

He was founder of the museum, and was the first chairman, with a band of very enthusiastic people, Harry Sutton. He and JP got together and decided to found it. Then he was chairman for about 8/10 years and he wasn't doing a very good job at that because he was so involved, and Dr Mold took over admirably, until he came to JP just over a year ago and asked him to take it back. He wasn't doing quite so much at that time and foolishly said yes. He never realised the correspondence you get. He's got a box under his desk next door, and he has about that much [indicates 12 inches], every month. Even this morning, they've had confirmation of their full registration of the Museums Association, but you do get a lot. He couldn't get through all the stuff he has. But they are ably supported by Barnstaple. He is, you need them really. Young Alison Mills (curator at the North Devon Museum) looks after him splendidly. She didn't know what to make of him to start with, but now she realises he's easy meat, so she looks after him very well.

All the family are coming down at Christmas, which is wonderful. They are looking forward to that. His eldest daughter is a vegetarian, they are a vegetarian family. She normally comes down a week before Christmas or a week after and then they have their own do, but this year they are all coming together. He has 6 grandchildren, 2 each, and he has to go up to the granddaughter at Leamington in a fortnight, where she's playing Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz. And his youngest grandson is very much into rugby, thank God, he's proud of him. So he shall be on the touchline again shortly [laughs].

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