CD2

(74 mins)

2/1

MEETING HUSBAND / WEDDING JOURNEY TO SCOTLAND / NAVAL HOSPITAL / GERMAN PATIENTS / NURSING TRAINING       

JC was based in the UK in navy. She was due to go to Colombo with a draft of nurses. In the meantime she met her husband, who was a patient. He was a petty officer from a ship who had come in to have an operation. [tells story of laddering stockings on his bed]. He was from Scotland. She was based in Plymouth. He couldn't go back to his ship because of his operation. It was last year of war. He had shore based job in Scotland. So it was writing letters and meeting when they got leave. It wasn't a very long time in Plymouth. he had some leave before he went to Scotland. He got demobbed before JC.

When she got leave she went to Scotland and they got married 1944. He got out of navy before JC did because she had to give so much notice. He came down and lived in sailor's home in Plymouth, waiting for her. They put her on night duty for her last month [laughs]. So she only saw him for a little while during day.

They got married in Dulverton. They had a little reception locally then went back to Scotland taking one small tier of wedding cake, and had another reception. The wedding was in Dulverton church. She borrowed a wedding dress and borrowed a bridesmaid's dress. There were still coupons then. So she had a white wedding. Her father was still around. They had a reception at Bridge cottage, where her sister was living.

They just had a family get together, then they got the train same day from Dulverton station. They had to change at Crewe. The trains were absolutely packed in those days. Her husband left her on the train to go and find a seat. [tells story of guard locking door] So she was one side of door and he was other side [laughs].That was their wedding day!

They could see each other through the glass door. It was a corridor train. They got to Glasgow. They went to his parents' house. His mother arranged for a few relatives to come and they had a few days there. Then he had to go back to shore base. It was big castle, called Calah in the Kyles of Bute. It was big house like Pixton Estate, which had been taken over by navy as shore base. JC stayed in village which was about two miles away. She stayed there for a week until she had to come back to Plymouth.

JC went back to naval hospital in Plymouth. They had horrific injuries in naval hospital. They had German prisoners who were beastly to them. They just refused every thing they tried to do for them. They had special ward. They had been taken off ships where they had injuries. Sometimes JC was on duty there. They had marines on duty with fixed bayonets in case they tried to get out of bed and escape. They would vomit in their bowl and throw it at her. In the end doctor said just keep them comfortable and don't bother. If they want to be like that, they are better just dying. They weren't all like that, just some were really bad. They hated the English. They didn't take into consideration that they were trying to do their best and get them well. The odd one or two upset the other Germans. They tried putting them at one end of ward with screens around them. You only did a limited time on that ward. It would probably get to you if you spent along time there.

It was built into you to be sympathetic and caring. They did every thing they could.As a Red Cross VAD, she did quite a bit before she went, while she was waiting in Dulverton. She was sent to Minehead hospital for tuition. When you were on night duty, and you weren't busy you had tuition then. You went all through different cases. There was always someone in charge, they were always told what to do. Her husband was in hospital for a hernia. [Back to top]
 

2/2

PLYMOUTH / MARRIAGE / MOVE TO DULVERTON

After JC went back to Plymouth after she got married, she just worked where ever she was posted, for about a year, until the war ended. They got married when they did because JC had been on a draft to go to Colombo. Her husband didn't want her to go, in case she didn't come back [laughs]. So the best thing to do was to get married. If you were married you were exempt. So they got engaged in September, and married in February. She was taken off the draft list to go to Colombo. She was a bit sad about that, because she would have enjoyed going. It all turned out for the best in the end. [laughs]

When they came out of the navy, they had to start looking for work. Her husband was a carpenter by trade. They came back to Dulverton and got accommodation. They kept going to the labour exchange. He went for various jobs didn't like them. They didn't know what they were going to do. They lived down at the bridge with JC's sister. JC wanted to go back to Scotland, because of better chance of work. Her husband loved it in Dulverton. He didn't want to go.

Eventually he got work at Minehead. They moved and got rented accommodation. She enjoyed living in Minehead. One of her daughters lives there now.

Eventually they moved back to Dulverton. It hadn't changed a lot. Not when they came here in the beginning, it has now. Over the last fifty years it has changed a lot. Old Dulvertonians are very thin on the ground now. It's the same everywhere. There used to be four bakers, then it was real bread. It was hand made dough, no machinery. Now its all processed. It's totally different. Now it goes mouldy within three or four days. When you only had it once a week, it was nearly as good as the day you had it, except it had gone a bit harder. It would keep a whole week.

They had four butchers. There was two hotels, The Lion and the Lamb. There were about four other pubs. There were all these little tiny shops. They had a store where the supermarket is now, but there were several little shops as well, cakes and sweets and everything. There was four or five of them. They had two banks, a chemist's shop. The other bank was Lloyds, where the chemist is now.

The postman used to walk from Dulverton to Hawkridge with the mail, through the Barle valley. He would follow the river to Hawkridge. In the morning he would drop off all the mail at the different places on the way, there wasn't a lot. Then he'd go in where Mr Lot's workshop is and mend men's shoes through the day. Then when it got half past two, three o'clock, he'd walk back with his dog to Dulverton and pick up. JC and brother had to go to the bottom of their lane about quarter of a mile down to the river, and wait for him, if they had got any mail to be posted. If they got tired of waiting they stuffed it under a tree root in the hedge. He would look for it. It was by a gate. He would pick up the mail on his way to Dulverton. [Back to top]
 

2/3

MINEHEAD /  DULVERTON / HUSBAND'S JOB /  HINAM COTTAGE  / AMORY ESTATE / ESATE LIFE /  SCHOOL COOK /  JOB CHANGES  

Minehead was quite nice in 1946. They hadn't got Butlins then. JC enjoyed it there. She lived in Quay Street, near the sea front. Her eldest daughter was born there in Minehead hospital, in 1946. They stayed there about year and half or two years, no two and half years.

Then they moved to Dulverton and son Ross was born in Dulverton. Then she had another daughter who was born in Dulverton.  Her husband was working for a building firm, not in Minehead. To start with they were called Parker and Andrews, then he went to Radley and Chanter. JC's father had moved around a bit with various people and he wasn't happy.  When they came back to Dulverton he wanted to come to live with them.  The cottage they were renting out of Dulverton, it was up near Hinam, called Hinam Cottage, it was like going home. So they rented a cottage there and her husband rode a motorbike to work. JC's father wanted to come and stay with them because he was unhappy. They said it wasn't any good.  Julie was about a year old. They only had two bedrooms, and she was still able to be with them, so they did have him to live with although it wasn't very convenient.

Her husband was building those houses then on her estate. So they decided to put their name on the list for one of the houses. That's how it happened and JC has been there ever since. They bought from the council many years ago. They were able to purchase it very cheaply, because they had lived there so many years. Then her father came and lived with them there. They have got masses of ground, with a back entrance with a garage built at the bottom of the garden. They can go in from the road that goes along to the Middle School. It's one of the better situated houses because they have this entrance both ways.

The site was a cricket pitch. There was a farm to be seen out of the back window. It was Dulverton Cricket club. So they moved to the one in Milhams Lane, where they play football, it was combined, when they started building houses there. They were building the houses because everybody was coming out of the army and they were needed. There was a need for houses after the war, for people coming back to Dulverton. It was the first estate. It was different to Hinam, but JC was still involved with Red Cross and here husband was involved with different activities. He was very interested in cricket. He was umpire for the cricket club. He belonged to skittles. There was always things going on.

 When she had three children and they were of school age, they built the middle school. She applied for a job in the school meals department, for extra income, as they all had to do. It was near. She didn't go to work until they were all of school age. She got a job down there as cook in charge. She worked there for twenty-six years, cooking the school meals. It was very convenient for her. Her father was still living with her, if any of the children weren't very well she had a built in house-minder. She was able to pop home in the lunch break, if need be. It only took a few minutes to get to and from work. The meals were absolutely superb then. They had roast three times a month, nearly once a week. There wasn't any convenience food at all. It was well balanced. There were cottage pies, meat pies. They had meat, or fish.

As the years went on there was more and more paper work, more and more red tape. You couldn't use this. You they were having chips and sausages, and beans. In the early days when she started cooking they didn't have things like that. [Back to top]
 

2/4

MENUS /  TRAINING / CATERING /  WASTAGE  

JC planned the menus and you had to submit them a month in advance to county in Taunton. This was right from the word go. She had to do a menu for a month. It had to be well balanced. You knew what you use, like how many times you could have a roast. If you had a roast with green vegetables you didn't have to have fresh fruit for the pudding You could have sponge pudding or milk pudding. You had to make sure you hadn't got pastry in a meat pie then a sponge pudding. They had to be balanced out so that you had the right vitamins and the right quantities. There was so much you could have then it was quite easy. It was all local produce. They had the local butcher and fruit and vegetable man. they would bring it every day. So it was always fresh. JC did all the ordering. She would go into the butcher and tell him what size joint she wanted. It had to be costed. When you planned your menu you knew you mustn't have too many good things in one meal [laughs].

In the early days it wasn't too bad, but when she was coming up to retirement, it was getting at her. She was bringing her work home because she hadn't got the time in the day to do all the book keeping. It was just too much. She had three helpers under her. She was cooking for one hundred and twenty. A few more than she had been cooking for at Hinam [laughs]. That was only about half a dozen. Before she got the job she had to go on a course at Taunton. For the first few weeks they had a supervisor from Taunton with them, to start her off. She wasn't just thrown in at the deep end. That was a brand new school, with a hundred and twenty to begin with. They didn't all stay. It was mostly the country children. A lot stayed because it was only a shilling a day to have a meal. It was quite easy to get the quantities right. The lady from Taunton told you everything. You'd got it on paper, that for fifty children you used x number of pounds of flour, to make a certain pudding. So it was quite easy.

She had all the recipes for things from county. If you were making a pudding it would tell you how much flour, how much fat and how many eggs to use. You got to know in time. The school would tell her every day, the secretary would come up in the morning saying how many children that day. She would have a rough idea in advance, it would be five or six one way or the other, unless there was an epidemic! There wasn't an epidemic. They always told you if a class wasn't going to be in school, or if fifteen children were cooking a meal in the domestic science department they didn't have much wastage at all. Back in the very early days they put it in big bins, and a farmer came to collect it and feed it to his animals. They never had foot and mouth. They called it pigswill. [Back to top]
 

2/5

KITCHEN / CATERING / SERVING / COUNTY / INTERVIEWS /  EXPERIENCE /  TRAINING / CHANGES

The kitchen was purpose built at the new school when they moved in. It was all very hygiene conscious. In front of the sinks they didn't have tiles, they had duck boards, wooden slatted boards. It was hands and knees and scrubbing brushes and soap, in the early days. Later on, they tiled it in. They had to wash the floors everyday, and all the teacloths had to be boiled every day, and the dishcloths. The cutlery and china was all washed in big stainless steel sinks, Then put into racks, baskets and cutlery and plunged into a steriliser. Every thing was washed by hand. When it was sterilised you left it on one side until it was dry, then it was stacked away. It was just boiling water in the steriliser, there wasn't any detergent in it.

It just came natural to JC to be able to make a pudding for a hundred people. They didn't have many disasters. They had big tins, that you could cut out twenty-four pieces. They had a mixing machine, a very large food mixer, with a very big bowl. That was what you did your mashed potato in, it was used for mixing puddings. They had a big steamer. They all served it, taking it in turns. One would do the meat, some else would do the vegetables, another would do the gravy. You didn't do the pudding at the same time, although they did latterly. When they had eaten the first course, they would bring back their plates, and the pudding would be served  Serving a hundred people took quite a while. The staff ate separately. They would bring their plates to you. The staff had to have theirs put in vegetable dishes. They had to do all the carving of the meat. You had to make sure that you had the right number of pieces. If there was some left over they could have seconds, there was always some left over.

It's lovely because she often sees some of the children now, and they've got children going to school now. If she went to a function like a gymkhana, she would see someone who recognised her, it would be 'Hello Mrs Campbell. I still remember your lovely custard.' [laughs]

Then she had to come home and cook for the family. You weren't allowed to take a bag or a basket to work. You couldn't take anything home with you. It was very strict. You could only take a handbag into the kitchen, for money and any little bits and pieces. You couldn't take anything out of the kitchen. They were hard and fast rules. Those were county rules.

Some of the head masters were better than others. They had quite a variety of head masters. JC got on with them quite well. The kitchen is a computer centre now. She's been gone now nearly twenty years. Some one took her place and it still went on. It's been about ten years now they haven't had school meals.

It was the first time JC had been in charge of other people. It was all local ladies from around there, from the estate, so she knew them. A lot of people applied, but JC didn't sit in on interviews. They came from county and interviewed everyone. When she went for the initial interview, there were about six or seven of them went. You were asked all about hygiene. They made up their minds from interviewing you who they were going to choose. When it was all over they said they thought that JC would be a suitable person to be in charge. They choose her assistant, and then the next one down. They gave her a week working with the supervisor from Taunton, it might have been ten days. She assessed how they all did, to see if you were in the right job. It came back that how they had assessed them they got the jobs. They could have changed it. So when they went for the job they didn't know which job they were being interviewed for. They knew they wanted a cook and a an assistant cook, who you would call on to make the gravy or something. They needed a general assistant. There was going to be three of them to start off with, full-time.

Then they had a lady come in at lunchtime to do washing up. She didn't have to be interviewed. She was quite happy to be interviewed on that basis. She thinks she got that job because she had been with the Red Cross and she knew about hygiene. They asked all sorts of question about background and where you had been. having been in the navy and nursing might have helped her, she thinks.

She hadn't had a lot of cooking experienc, but looking after the children in the sick bay, the evacuees, they did take turns of week on and week off doing the cooking, for the children and the staff. She had some cooking experience at home, but that was all. They had to go to Taunton and do courses, regularly, to be kept up to date with the new procedures. They were to do with hygiene and catering and ordering, how to buy and store things. Most of it was not to buy in too large a quantity, because of the shelf life, to order sensibly. [Back to top]
 

2/6

ACCIDENTS / CHANGES /  SPECIAL DIETS CHOICE / MENU CHANGES /  OTHER STAFF

JC doesn't remember any disasters. They had a few accidents. People cut themselves with carving knives. It was panic for a minute. They had first aid kit. As she had been in nursing she knew what to do. She could treat it, then she would go to the head master, Mrs So-and-So has done this, she needs to see a doctor, either the head master or the secretary would rush them off down to the surgery [laughs]. JC cut herself on many occasions. Nothing serious. One lady put her hand in the steriliser. It wasn't too traumatic.

The first ten or fifteen years went along smoothly. Then they began to get chip machines, fast foods. Then choice came in. They could have a cooked main course or a salad lunch. Before then J.C. had been the one deciding. You were always getting literature from county for different procedures. Like don't buy So-and-So's baked beans any more. This was the firm you had used.

They had children who had special diets. They had to do special for them, which all came from county. You were able to do it, order the things specific that they were able to have. JC thinks the changes came because the country was getting more health conscious. The price of meat was going up. They thought they were giving them a healthy meal, but the cost was coming into it as well. The budgets were getting tighter and tighter and they had to make cuts. That's why they reduced the number of roasts to once in four weeks instead of three times in four weeks. It wasn't a problem giving them a choice but it meant more work, because the children had to say, they had forms they could put ticks by. The secretary would do that and she would come up with so many for so-and-so. Then you did it accordingly. They had different coloured discs, red, green and yellow. The red disc was for the main meal etc. They had to show their disc. If they had changed it over with a friend, you couldn't do anything about it. You gave them for whatever colour they produced. They couldn't change their mind. They had to have it unless they changed with a friend.

JC thought the choice was a good idea. It was far better to think that the child would eat the meal instead of just taking what he wanted off the main meal. Chips were always popular, but you were only allowed to have them twice a week.

JC stayed twenty years and her staff stayed with her. They went before she did, for one reason or another. Her assistant was much older. Other people came in who were quite good. Her assistant and JC got on very well together. She knew that if she couldn't do something, her assistant could do it, like the puddings. JC would let her do it, or the carving of the meat. She didn't stick out and think that was her job. They were very flexible. She would take over when JC wasn't there. She lived [nearby] on the estate and would call in if JC was ill for a day or two, ask what she should do, and do the ordering. She was called Mrs Lane. [Back to top]
 

2/7

HOUSING ESTATE LIFE / CHANGES / BUYING COUNCIL HOUSE / LEAVING WORK / KEN ALMOND / STAFF MEALS /  SITUATION NOW

The estate was a sort of friendly place when they came there at first, because they were all newly married people, with children growing up of same age. They all met when things going on say at school. They all got to know one another. Now a lot of people on estate she hasn't a clue as to what their names are. Years when children were growing up she knew everybody, how many children they had got, and what children were called [laughs]. There's thirty- houses in Amory Road, and about thirty-two in Barnsclose. That is all part of the original estate. Amory Road was built first, occupied, then they went on to second phase, further down. She knew everyone in Amory Road.

Magna Housing Association own quite a lot of houses now. There are several down her alley that have bought their own property. There's one lady opposite who is owned by Magna, the rest are privately owned. Different ownership made it change, because different people came from all over the place.

JC had the option to buy in early eighties. If you had lived there for x number of years, you were given option. So they did that. It was an easy decision. They got their house for eight thousand pound. It seemed a lot then but compared with what its worth now with three or four bedroomed house and all that ground. What would you get now for eight thousand? [laughs] Is this being recorded? They weren't given a four bedroom house because they had her father with them, they didn't know how long he was going to be with them. The reason they had that one was, that JC wanted to be on the end than sandwiched between two people. When they were building them her house was supposed to be looking the other way, because they had built them in a horseshoe. [describes alteration to plans] So they got more space. They couldn't get number of houses on the ground that they wanted. So JC thought they would be better on the end with more ground, and it's more private. [describes extent of her ground out to lane.] They have a back entrance as well for garage.

She had to leave the school at sixty-five. She was glad because it had got so difficult, so much paper work. All the food was coming from away. They even had vegetables coming from Taunton. The contractors were leaving at five o'clock in the morning. When you got to work in the morning it was all outside the kitchen door. The meat was still local, but it was cut down so much, they weren't having very much meat. They put in deep freezers. They got chips, fish and burgers, and fish fingers. It was all coming from a frozen food place once a week. They got the bread locally from Balsoms. Just the one baker was left then. 

She had farewell party. It was all very sad [laughs]. The children were told they could bring money to school to buy her some thing she would like. They brought masses of cards they had made themselves. The staff had little party in hall. They gave her lovely flowering cherry tree, which is in front garden and a food mixer. She asked for a Kenwood food mixer. They gave her little carriage clock. She had picture. She had a lot of things which they had bought with the money. She had only got tiny food mixer. They gave her a huge Kenwood. The headmaster made a speech.

 It was Mr Ken Almond. It was very sad when he died. Mr Owen has also died since then.

She was still doing staff meals separately in the vegetable dishes. They've got big hall, and they've got the stage, and the teachers ate on the stage, on table of their own, with children lower down in hall. They came up steps and had their lunch. on stage They had lunch supervisors as well, that were walking around with the children. Children cleared the tables. They had to come for the cloths to wipe tables, then they had to stack them and put all chairs away before they left. They had their own routine of how they did it.

They must eat their packed lunches in hall now. She doesn't think there are any facilities there now for making drinks. Perhaps they have flasks, squashes or cartons. [Back to top]
           

2/8

SOCIAL LIFE /  HUNTING / ERNEST BAWDEN / CHILDHOOD MEMORIES /  CYCLING / HUNTING

JC had quite a hectic social life in that time. They did a lot of things with friends. She has been involved with the hunt from being a baby. It's in her blood and once it's there . It's not everybody's idea. She was born and bred to it.

JC's mother's brother was the huntsman to Devon and Somerset Staghounds, Ernest Bawden. Living at Hinam they were in the middle of the Barle valley, where quite a lot of hunting went on She remembers her mother carrying her on her back. She ran with her out in to the woods. You never thought of locking or shutting a door then. They just went to see what was happening. He knew that she would be coming out and he would blow his hunting horn, and wave up as he went on with the hounds in full cry down the valley [laughs].

She never followed on a horse. They had horses there because her brother was the harbourer, her elder brother, Paul. He went to find the deer and tell them where they could hunt tomorrow. She got the horses ready to go and do that. JC could ride, she went on the farm, but never with the hunt. She could have if she had wanted to. She suppose she didn't have the time.

She took part in the social life that went with hunting, point to point, puppy shows, they always went to those. She went to the hunt balls. They didn't worry about drinking and driving in those days [laughs]. You could go and drink and drive and nobody thought anything of it. They followed the hunt on foot when it was school holidays. One of her friends mothers was very good. She came and they walked down into valley and hope that the hounds would come their way, and take some sandwiches and play around, and the hounds would be upon you. They always found some thing to do.

She even rode a bicycle to Molland, across Molland moor with some other friends on bikes to a dance. From Hinam to Molland, about eight miles. She had a black skirt that she pinned it up round her waist [laughs], a long black skirt. They were about four or five of them, and they all decided to do this silly thing. They had carbide lights that fitted on the front of their bicycles. They didn't bother with a rear light. Came home singing and laughing all the way home. She wouldn't like to say [doesn't remember] what their were singing [laughs]. Something they probably heard at the dance [laughs]. She wasn't a singer.

If hunting is banned JC thinks it will affect the countryside quite a lot, because so many of the villages depend on, in more ways than one, for the revenue, for people coming, for stabling horses, farriers. These people just won't be wanted any more. People aren't just going to keep horses to look at. It will be a sad day, she thinks. She doesn't uphold cruelty, she hates it, it hurts her when she sees a cat killing a bird in the garden., But it's gone on for generations, and it is a way of life in the country. They don't go up to London and tell the people that they can't go to the theatre tonight because we don't like it. They get on with their way of life in the towns. If it's left to the country, as long as it's run properly, and it's not abused, then she can't see any harm in it. She doesn't think for one minute that the farmers will allow those deer to encroach on to their farm land, to graze, they will just kill them. It's got points both ways. It will be a very big debate. Mr Blair has got enough on his plate with the foot and mouth now. [Back to top]
 

2/9

FOOT AND MOUTH / NATIONAL PARK /  IDENTITY / HEALTH / LIFE NOW 

JC's son goes out and visits farms. The foot and mouth has affected him. When he knows that he has to go to a farm he rings them first. He says when he's due, because they are doing a barn conversion or something, they might say come but leave your car at such and such a place, put on your wellington boots and come a certain way, and you will find the dipping things there, then you will be OK.  Some he isn't going to, others are being very understanding. He always asks what would you like me to do. He abides by that.

The national park was designated in 1954. It's not so free and easy now. There are more restrictions now and they always say whether you can or cannot do that. Some she agrees with, and some she doesn't agree with. There were two stages of it. There was the designation in 1954, and then the Authority moving to Dulverton in 1974, becoming the National Park Authority. She thinks they do a good thing. Some of the planning, when they say you can't have that, when it's to do with agricultural properties, it's a bit unfair, some of the decisions they make, but she feels she's not in a position to judge them one way or the other. Before the National Park Dulverton was just West Somerset, and not part of Exmoor. It was just council offices down there then.

She does feel part of Exmoor now, it has made it better that way. They are controlling it in a better way. There is more authority there now than there was before. People used to do silly things, barns here and barns there, they are keeping it nicer countryside, rather than having different things plonked here and there willy-nilly. Some of the planning things are unfair, they ought to have let him convert that [laughs]. She says she comes from Exmoor not West Somerset. When they went away anywhere and were asked she always said Exmoor. People knew Exmoor more than they knew West Somerset [laughs].

Now JC is retired, her husband died three years ago, she has been in her house for fifty years. She has a lot of arthritis, she has had two hips and knee replaced, So she has difficulty getting about. Her family are in agreement with her that as long as she wants to stay there and she can manage, they won't badger her. She thinks that eventually they would like her to go. She has one daughter at Withycombe, along Carhampton way. She is unmarried and works for West Somerset District Council. Diana lives in Whitegate Road in Minehead, she has a son of seventeen, and husband who works in Taunton. She thinks that eventually to go to Minehead, rather than be in sheltered housing in Dulverton, where if anything went wrong they would have to keep travelling over to her. It makes sense really. She's quite happy about going to Minehead, because they started off their married life there. She doesn't mind going into sheltered housing or something in Minehead, when the time comes. They aren't pressing her to do anything. They say it's up to you when you can't cope [describes looking after herself and how she can rely on them for anything she can't manage]. She is always very careful not to have any accident.

She belongs to the Women's Institute. She gets a lift from a very nice lady on the estate in her car. There is a very nice community centre nearby, with all sorts of function going on. It's not very far for her to walk. They have tea parties, bingo, she doesn't play, they do different things there. She gets a social life as well. She goes to stay with her family.

[RECORDING ENDS] [Back to top]