CD2

(71 mins)
 

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PR / MOORLAND PLOUGHING / PORCHESTER ENQUIRY / LORD PORCHESTER / PLOUGHING / CHANGES TO NP COMMITTEE

He made numerous television appearances and on radio, telling people about the park and new paths, things like that. He did it for General Wilson and for Dr Curtis [his successor], when he came, because they just didn't know. When Lord Porchester's enquiry was about to take place he was the only one at that time who knew what Lord Porchester wanted to see. Lord Porchester's enquiry was about the ploughing up of land and all that had gone on before, the Exmoor Society and the paying compensation. As he's said, they [SCC] bought North Hill,  Hawkcombe, Culbone, Tom's Hill, Larkbarrow, a number of other, smaller places. But then due to a certain amount of political pressure they suddenly decided it would be a better thing to pay a farmer compensation for not ploughing up land. A typical example was by County Gate, where Mr Halliday had acres and acres he could plough up and re-seed. He doesn't know what acreage as he didn't go to the planning conferences, whereas for the first 10 years he was at any county meeting to do with the planning of Exmoor.

All this built up to such a crescendo that Mr Halliday was given permission to plough up 300 acres and he would be paid £x for not ploughing up land. Whereas previous to that [they bought it], and he's absolutely sure it's the right thing; North Hill, Culbone, Hawkcombe, belongs to the nation, to Somerset, and it will be for ever more. Whereas if you're paying the farmer compensation [tails off].

He was given a white police Range Rover, which was like sitting on air compared with his old landrover. Anyway, Lord Porchester arrived for a couple of days, with 2 other gentlemen, and wanted to see all the land that had been ploughed up during JC's time, from '63 right up to [then], it must have been '77 perhaps, he's not sure. He could take him out onto Porlock Common, and around Nutscale, where it had been ploughed up. He took him round, with the 2 other gentlemen on his committee, for 3 days. It was a most enjoyable 3 days. He rang the NPO the other day, when he heard that Lord Porchester [now Lord Carnarvon] had died and said that he was one of the nicest men that he thinks he'd ever met, both in his naval career and [jumps]. There was nothing smarmy about him, but he really was a gentleman. He talked to everybody the same, treated them the same.

He spent 3 days driving Lord Porchester around, and then spent 3 weeks in County Hall at the public enquiry. He took his big map up. And then when someone from the Exmoor Society (he won't use any names) came up and started laying the law down Lord Porchester, who was so nice and polite, made it quite clear that he wasn't going to have any of that nonsense at all. Any person who pointed out a spot or place which had been neglected or converted, he could quite calmly say, 'The Warden took me there. I saw it for myself.' That was the problem. The Ministry of Agriculture was paying the farmer a subsidy to plough up land, a subsidy for fencing and for fertiliser, and the National Park didn't know anything about it at all. He remembers Roger Miles, when he had his first talk with JC, asking him to keep his eye open and if he saw a 6 furrow plough on Exmoor let him know where it had gone.

In one particular case he spotted it, and phoned Roger, and Roger phoned the farmer. And the farmer said to Roger, 'Have I got to get your permission to plough up this land?' and Roger said, 'No, it's nothing to do with me.' But JC begged him [the farmer], not to plough up all this heather. The fields are beautiful now, they maintain the son, who is still on the farm. It was out near Nutscale, but he doesn't want to use names. But the farmer wasn't obliged to let the National Park know anything at all. Again, he was beginning to feel he was a snooper. Those times did alter after Lord Porchester got them together and said the Ministry of Ag, and the Countryside Commission and all of them must consult one another; if a farmer puts in to plough up all this land, surely it's only right that the National Park should be advised. Then if you can offer a farmer £1000 an acre for it, and the farmer's happy [tails off]. But even that led to a certain amount of abuse, because the number of places that were going to be ploughed that nobody thought a plough would go to, just to get compensation, or to buy it, increased quite considerably [laughs].

In one case, he drove the National Park Committee out there, and there was a member of the Exmoor Society. But by this time Matthew Whaley-Cohen wasn't there any more, Jan Ridler wasn't there; the people on the National Park Committee were appointed by the government, he didn't know half of them and they didn't know him. Whereas for the first 10 years he knew everyone. They all knew him as Jim. Because he went to all the meetings. He can remember them saying to this farmer, 'You can't plough that.' And within 48 hours, he'd ploughed it. He'd gone straight down over. How the heck he'd done it. It was only ploughed one way. It just needed a phone call from JC. He said, 'Do you remember you told that farmer he couldn't plough that?' That was out near the Doone Valley, but he doesn't want to mention any names.

Yes, there were still local people on the committee. But the whole attitude had changed. Whereas it had been a dozen people sitting round a table, down at Exmoor House you could almost fill the place, fill the great big room with people. The chairman changed, he wasn't living in Exmoor. When JC retired he doesn't think the chairman knew his name, and he'd done 25 years. He honestly doesn't. He stood up to thank JC for all he'd done, but [laughs, saying he won't go into that side of the story.] [Back to top]
 

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LORD PORCHESTER / GOLDEN HORSESHOE / BUYING LAND / WIMBLEBALL RESERVOIR

He liked Lord Porchester so much because he treated everyone the same. He never lost his temper or anything at all. [tells story about stopping while driving Lord P around to give advice to Golden Horseshoe rider who was on the wrong track]. (He marked the Golden Horseshoe ride (75 miles) for 15 years. The British Horse Society appreciated it and he ended up being given a merit award, which he's very proud of. Only 3 people in Exmoor have it at the moment.) All the time they were in Taunton, at the public enquiry, it was amazing how polite and kind Lord P was with everyone. Farmers and landowners, all sorts of people had problems for him to try and sort out, and in the end he sorted them out. And there has been peace in our time oh Lord ever since.

But he still to this very day believes that their policy of purchasing the land, with a 75% grant, was much better than what is happening today. He remembers there were certain places, Haddon Hill is a typical example. He got involved when they were going to build the reservoir in the national park. He thinks when he went to the first meeting there were 17 different sites allocated. That was very quickly cut down to, finally, 2. One of them was below BJ's house. BJ's house wouldn't have existed if Bye Common and Kemps [had been selected]. His job was to go down with little white stakes, with a map, and mark where the dam would be on Bye Common, and on the other side. He had to do the same at Wimbleball. As everybody knows, Wimbleball won and the reservoir was built up there.

But again, the land up there was privately owned, he can't remember the acreages, but part of it was bought by Somerset County Council and the other part was owned by a farmer. So the farmer had to be paid compensation, again he doesn't know exactly how much, but it was worth quite a considerable amount. But it was just rough land. If they had had their policy, the one they had had before, they would probably have owned all the land and they wouldn't have had the difficulties they have had since then. Applications have been put in to plough part of it up and plant wheat. He can remember an application. And of course you had the NP Committee by the short and curlies and there was nothing they could do except pay the compensation to prevent it being done. [Back to top]
 

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EXMOOR PONY / STARTING NP HERD / STALLION LOGANBERRY

But one of the good things, and the great thing which came out of that, which was very near and dear to his heart, was the Exmoor pony. Many times, when they bought North Hill to start with, and Hawkcombe, he was always looking for somewhere where they [the NPA] could have their own Exmoor ponies. He used to talk to Harold Heard, and Fred Milton, people like that, farmers who had ponies, and they could advise him that although the Exmoor pony was a pretty tough creature you had to look after them, they had to have the right food. And it wasn't until Wimbleball lake was built, and they had that lovely span of land out at Frogwell Lodge, and Haddon Hill, all around there, Lady Harriet's Drive - all those sort of places - that they could have their own Exmoor herd.

General Wilson was the boss then, at Exmoor House. He called a meeting, with Fred Milton, Captain Wallace [fellow contributor to the archive], Joan Watts, Harold Heard and himself, who all had Exmoor ponies. Joan was the secretary of the Exmoor Pony Society and had written a book about them. JC drove them all up onto Haddon Hill, round the tracks. He didn't need to take Captain Wallace because he knew every inch of it like the back of his hand. But the others wanted to make sure that the vegetation was right, there was water, and there were places where they could build a corral to look after them. Anyway, it was agreed that they would buy some filly foals that year, and they bought 2 yearlings and 4 foals. Harold Heard was one of the inspectors, and as he went round inspecting and branding that crop of foals he selected them. JC had nothing to do with the selection. There were plenty of foals. Harold had a herd, Captain Wallace had a big herd on Winsford Hill, there was a big herd on Withypool Common. But they were becoming a rare breed. The reason was because the Exmoor pony was losing its popularity as a riding pony. He knows a lady who used a stallion who stood at Exford, Shelley's Boy, on her mares, and she turned out some of the finest, toughest, 14.2/15 hands ponies, that had ever hunted on Exmoor. Because they had the Exmoor pony blood in them, and the thoroughbred as well.

The Exmoor losing its popularity as a riding pony because they are so strong. You've only got to see the Duke of Edinburgh games, the gymkhana pony. If an Exmoor pony doesn't want to run up and down in a row and put a spud in a bucket he isn't going to do it. It doesn't matter whether there's a child of 9 or 10 on its back or a man of 11 stone. He thinks they were popular before because they were used for shepherding and as strong farm ponies. That's why they were so popular. Now, the farmer uses a motorbike, or a mod [quad] bike. Even when he came down in '63, farmers were riding over Tom's Hill and Larkbarrow to see the sheep on an Exmoor pony. Exmoor ponies were also used, in a lot of cases, for hunting by people, because they are so strong and tough.

But they did begin to lose their popularity, and the Exmoor Pony Society said they were becoming a rare breed, so they started off with those 6. Unfortunately one broke its leg. They bought them and took them to Ashwick, where Captain Wallace and his wife, and the man there, Derek [Sharpe] were. Derek looked after them, giving them hay all through that winter. Jim used to drive down and see them. JC loaded the 5 into his trailer and took them up onto Haddon Hill the following summer and let them go. They did very well and when they were 2 year olds, coming 3, he went up to the Cotswolds Wildlife Farm and bought a stallion, called Loganberry. He and Harold Heard went up. The stallion was a pure bred Exmoor. It had been with a few mares up there. You reach a stage when they begin to mate with their own daughter, so they had to change stallions.

Loganberry was very successful. He got all 5 mares in foal, and their breeding programme started from there [laughs]. [Back to top]
 

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KEEPING HERDS ON MOORLAND / GELDED EXMOORS / STALLION QUARTZ / BLUEBELL / ROUNDING UP /  CASTRATING / BUILDING UP HERD / EXMOOR PONY SOCIETY INSPECTIONS / CRITERIA / SELLING BLUEBELL / BLUEBELL AND QUARTZ IN SWEDEN

Of course when they bought Larkbarrow and Tom's Hill they had another place where they could keep a herd of Exmoor. Then they bought Anstey Common, and had another place out there. They built corrals in all these places. He used to ring up George Carter, their local vet, at the end of the season and they'd run the colts in and castrate them all. He took all the colts out to Tom's Hill and Larkbarrow. He doesn't care what anybody says, if you went out there and saw 6 gelded Exmoors, with their manes and there coats, on a day like this, with the sun shining on them, it was worth a guinea a minute to see them. They'd all take off, and their tails would be flowing.

At Warren Farm they put another stallion, Quartz, he bought that from some lady. But it was a nasty little toad. It chased the farmer off Hayes Allotment, when the mares were in season. The farmer was riding a thoroughbred, and the stallion chased him all across Hayes Allotment and got to the gate before he did and bit him through the boot. The farmer phoned up and said he wasn't complaining so much for himself, but if the stallion was going to do that to him, on a thoroughbred, what was he going to do to anybody else that comes along on a horse? So JC and brother Fred went out and rounded the stallion up, put it in the trailer again and took it to a lady at Shepton Mallet. He wishes he could remember her name. She was a lovely lady, she showed Exmoors at Dunster Show and places. She gave them £80 for it. Again it's history. She sold it to a lady in Sweden. JC had an Exmoor pony here [at Backwoods], Bluebell, over there [indicates model], which he broke to harness. He drove her in Minehead Festival, 2 years running. He drove her in a beautiful gig at shows at Chard, Taunton, Yeovil. She was a 1981 foal. He broke her in 1984 for harness, and won several trophies and rosettes.

[BJ asks him to describe what happens on a castrating day] He and Fred would round them up (he had a horse called Lynmouth, which he'd take out in his trailer). They had a couple of men from the depot, and Fred would be in his landrover. But they found that once they'd got them rounded up, if JC went in front with Lynmouth and rode on slowly, they'd follow another horse better than if they'd been driven. And out at Frogwell Lodge, there was a small area of about 2 acres which John Lethaby fenced off, and they built a corral there so the ponies could be run into it. They got them in there when they had to bring the foals in to brand them, they had to bring the mares in for worming, and if they were castrating the vet would be there and they'd bring them in. They were very, very wild.

On the other hand, they were very crafty. They'd come into a corral and just stand there as if they'd been broken and nothing on earth was going to frighten them at all. Then all of a sudden they'd go up on their hind legs, and their front feet would come up over the corral. You really had to hang on tight (they had a rope around their neck). George Carter, the vet, would just give them an injection to put them to sleep. Then he'd castrate them (on the ground). They used hold the hind legs for him and he'd cut the testicles out and put some disinfectant on. Then, when it was all over, he'd give them another injection, which would bring them around quickly, and they'd be up on their feet. There's no exaggeration, he's never seen one that didn't just walk away and start eating, as if nothing had happened. It was all done as painlessly as possible.

But it did mean they were keeping a lot of Exmoors for people to see. At the end of the day, when they had a breeding herd out on Anstey Common, a breeding herd at Warren Farm and a breeding herd at Haddon Hill, then they were doing their best to try and sell foals. They did sell a lot of foals for people who wanted them. He was always frightened they were going to come to a stage when they had to be sold for meat, they had too many. He thinks they had a herd of 46, when he left the National Park. Which he supposes was the best that anybody could have. Every year, the inspectors come round in October and November and examine each foal, to make sure what they were breeding from was the best. There can be all sorts of things wrong with an Exmoor pony. One thing which condemns them almost to death is if he's got any white hairs. He mustn't have any white hairs in his mane or tail, that is taboo. And also a parrot mouth is another fault. They were very thorough. When he left [the NP] they took the stallions away. Quartz had gone from out at Warren.

Strangely enough, in 1990 he took on another job and had to buy another horse and had 3 horses there [at Backwoods, his home] and didn't have the time to drive Bluebell as he had been doing, at shows. He was retired by then, of course - he's sure somebody will hear this and say, 'Bloody warden, spending all his time driving Exmoor ponies to shows!', but he was retired then [laughs, asking BJ to make that quite clear]. [Tells story about selling Bluebell, who subsequently went to Sweden and mated with Quartz.] [Back to top]
 

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SWEDISH HERD / BLUEBELL / FAILING INSPECTION / BUILDING UP THE HERD / LOSING TOUCH / STOPPING BREEDING / MANAGING LAND THROUGH SWALING & EXMOOR PONY / WORMING PONIES / EXMOOR PONY SOCIETY / BLUEBELL / GRANDCHILDREN

The Swedes are very interested in Exmoor ponies, and driving. They have a pure bred herd. It was a great coincidence, that Quartz should go from here 2 years after and sire a foal from Bluebell. [talks about Bluebell being broken to harness and riding and showing her at Yeovil, and how he had saved her from being rejected by the inspectors].

Foals that don't pass the inspection have to be put down, there's no other way unfortunately, unless you can find somebody who will buy them. A white hair will be enough to put them out. [phone rings].

Yes, building up the herd to 46 was for people to look at, and to strengthen the herd. That was the main thing, keeping a pure bred herd. Obviously, he's lost touch with them now because he's been retired for 12 years or more, but they're still there. He doesn't know how many stallions. But what they did of course was to take the stallions away. If you take your stallions away for a couple of years you can keep your mares and your herd perfectly all right, as long as a rogue stallion doesn't get out and get in with them. There was lots of places where people wanted to swap stallions. It's the same as the hunting of the deer, you've got to get rid of the old stag as if he stays in the same place for 5 years he's mating with his own daughters and you end up with runts. They took they stallions away because they wanted to stop breeding. If you like they were being too successful.

Again, the most important thing is to manage the land. When the National Park owned Anstey Common, for example, there was a tremendously good swaling policy there; you burn so much of the heather this year, and so much next year. The same thing happened out at Tom's Hill and Larkbarrow where, before '74, the wardens were involved with the swaling policy. After '74 it became Beatrice's responsibility [Beatrice Salter, NP ecologist]. The wardens helped. The Exmoor pony had a part in managing the land (they now have a small herd on North Hill), because they eat different things. They'll keep birch under control, for one thing. They also run very well with a certain breed of sheep, like black faced sheep. He knows this is a recorded programme, but if you've got a lot of black faced sheep running with a herd of ponies, you don't get a worming problem because the sheep devour the stuff that's on the ground and the worms don't pass through the sheep. Whereas the pony will eat the vegetation and if there's a worming problem, infestation, they'll go straight through the pony and multiply. But they always brought the ponies in every year and made sure they were wormed. Luckily for them, the vets wormed the ponies by injecting them in the rump, not with a syringe in the mouth, as you do with a horse. It kept the land fairly clean of worms.

They worked as close as they possibly could with the Exmoor Pony Society. It was their inspectors who came round every year to inspect and brand the ponies. He knew them all obviously. At Exford Horse Show there is a big Exmoor Pony class, several classes actually. People came from Shepton Mallet, Wells, all over the country. That's where he had the first success with Bluebell. [laughs as he tells story about keeping Bluebell, which made his grandchildren and great grandchildren happy]. He's still got 3 horses. He has 3 great grandchildren now. They don't come to see him. They go up in the field with the horses. [Back to top]
 

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ADAPTING TO NEW NPA / WAYMARKING NOW / STAFF NOW / WAY OF WORKING PRE-74 / STRYCHNINE / WHEDDODN CROSS CAR PARK / WHEDDON CROSS VILLAGE HALL AND PLAYING FIELD COMMITTEES / BUYING PLAYING FIELD / LIAISING WITH LOCALS

[BJ asks how he adapted to the new era of the NP at Dulverton, with the staff expanding]. Adapting was a case of having to. He could see that it was very, very political. It's not a question of jobs for the boys, but they had been very successful under the planning officer and the staff at Taunton. The proof is all the waymarked walks they did. A lot of paths have been opened up since, every path in Exmoor has been opened up, legally, now, because the government and the Ramblers have said they have to be, irrespective of whether anybody wants to walk them, or if there's any enjoyment. It's the law of the land that they be opened up and marked, and that's a good thing. But there isn't any such thing as a waymarked walk book, or a nature trail book, all that's gone by the board. It's all people, probably university trained, who have come to do a job, and as far as he can see the park is going on wonderfully.

But there's no doubt about it, when they started on 1 June 1963, until 1974 when the change of local government [jumps]. And as he's just said, when he took over Devon, they were able to build the bridges, to link Somerset with Devon. They were able to build Malmsmead car park. Jack Burge said, 'If you want this field for a car park you can have it. And I'll give you that piece over there to plant trees in, if you want to plant trees.' They got rid of the moles with strychnine, and all round Brendon Village Hall, and the car park at Wheddon Cross. That was another place where they built a car park, in the pub. That's a council car park. Mr Russell, the landlord, gave them the area for the car park. They [the village hall committee] built the wall, and the children's play area, and bought the playing field. Because by this time Arthur Webber and all the other Webbers realised it wouldn't be a bad thing if JC was on the playing field committee. He ended up as chairman of the village hall and of the playing field. They raised the money within a fortnight to buy the field. James Phillips & Sons had the field for sale, £950, for 4 acres. That was 1967 or '68. [describes meeting where they decided to buy the field, and how he was responsible for raising the money, with a matched grant from the Playing Fields Association].

He's always been able to wear different hats. Wheddon Cross people knew he had no control over planning applications or anything like that. If they had a gate that didn't work, or a style that was falling down, or a tree across the path then they'd phone him and he'd get onto John Lethaby. Right up until John moved in [?] 1974 from Ashwell he saw him every morning. When he left the NP, they [?the estate staff] gave him that model horse over there [indicates]. They called it 'urgent', because he doesn't think he ever went to John with a request without adding it was urgent [laughs]. [Back to top]
 

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EXMOOR HOUSE / HOLIDAYS WHILE WARDEN / ACCESSIBILITY / TIME IN LIEU / STAGHOUNDS / WAYMARKING BRIDLEWAYS / WORKING FOR COUNTY HALL PLANNING OFFICER PRE-'74 / FORESTRY COMMISSION

He didn't have an office at Exmoor House. Now the wardens have offices. He never felt there was any need. Everybody contacted him at home. He knows it sounds ridiculous, but in the 25 years he was the NP warden he only slept out of Exmoor for 7 days, and that was when he took his wife to Jersey for a week, after she'd had an operation. That was his only holiday in 25 years. He had the smallholding, a Jersey cow he had to milk night and morning, and everybody knew he was there. They could ring him up at night, in the morning, whenever they liked, and either his wife or he were there. He took time off in lieu in the winter time. He had a team of workmen that came in the morning and in the night, and if there wasn't anything he could do he took time off. And he took time off, he started hunting.

He always did enjoy fox hunting. He did very little stag hunting, but he did an awful lot for the staghounds. Norah Harding, the master, gave him a beautiful stag's head at Dunster Show for the general work he'd done in opening up all the hundreds of miles of bridleway. There were just over 700 miles by 1974 that he had actually marked himself, for the first time. He would mark the path and next week Gerald Hancock or Jeff How, or whoever would take the pot of paint, whether red, blue or yellow and re-mark it and perhaps do work on it. But he did over 700 miles during that time, that he knew every inch of, and he enjoyed every minute of it [laughs].

[BJ asks whether or not he felt General Wilson, when he came as NPO,  was encroaching on his territory] When General Wilson came he was replacing the county planning officer. As far as JC was concerned, his boss was now at Dulverton instead of Taunton. Dennis Brown, the planning officer responsible for Exmoor, lived in Minehead. So when JC was doing all his paths he would let Dennis have the information first and Dennis would probably walk the path at the weekend and confirm it, or make suggestions before it went to the committee. As time went on they trusted him more. He only ever got in trouble with the Forestry Commission once [tells story about waymarking a tree]. [Back to top]
 

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RETIRING FROM ENP / NEW STAFF / ESTATE MANAGEMENT CHANGES / EXMOOR PONIES / ASHWELL / ASHWELL WORKFORCE

He left the NP on retirement, at 65. He was ready to go. It would be a lie if he didn't say that at various times he wasn't very disappointed in having those jobs which he felt he had done to the entire satisfaction of county hall, and to the farmers and landowners [now done by someone else]. Roger Miles asked him on one occasion, (when Dougie Lyddon wanted to cut and lay a beech hedge in Ellicombe and the National Park were considering putting a fence up) to take out one of the new officers who had just been appointed as his assistant, so he could make a report. It was a simple thing. Normally JC would have gone there and discussed it himself, so taking the new chap out, in his pin striped suit and winklepicker shoes, galled a bit [laughs]. But it didn't worry him that much because he knew it wasn't because he had done something wrong, or wasn't capable. But he still had to do all the work in connection with organising putting up the fence. It never galled him really.

He even had the ponies taken away from him officially, on paper. To give this particular person a job they gave him estate management, they gave him the workshop and the Exmoor ponies. But JC still did it. Nobody else went up there and collared the ponies. He got hold of a couple of men. When they were branding, he got hold of a neighbour of his at Wheddon Cross, Roly Langdon, who was as strong as an ox. Roly's a smashing chap. He's still got a herd. His wife's a great Exmoor pony person and has taken on a herd. Her herd is running on Dunkery. They live at Luckwell Bridge.

Ashwell depot was only just a fowl house, an outbuilding. The house was only 75 years old. The Barwicks - a local name, Walter [fellow contributor to the archive] lived in Winsford and he had a brother and  sister who lived at Wheddon Cross - lived at [?built] Ashwell. But the old farmhouse, Ashwell, was the seat of the Cutcombe estate years ago, but burnt down. But the old stone buildings were about 2ft thick. He had a building downstairs at the end of his barn which he let the National Park have, where Jeff made the signs. It was big enough because the men would arrive and be gone [about their work]. Dougie Sharp, who's retiring, must have been with the National Park 30 years by now. JC interviewed him, would be off cutting grass, looking after the car parks. Then there was the footpath team, and always signs to put up. He thinks the most they ever put up were 13 in a day, around Porlock Weir. [Back to top]
 

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MAKING WINE / BUTLINS STAFF BINGE / EXPLODING CIDER BOTTLE / ELDERBERRY WINE / LAYING DOWN WINE / BIRTHDAY MEET / SPECIAL OCCASIONS

[BJ refers to a story he'd once told her about home made wine] He still makes wine. He's got about 70 gallons underneath where they are sitting. He's made a lot this year, because the fruit was very plentiful. He'd started making wine at Ashwell, elderberry, damson, rhubarb, barley - he's made all sorts. His wife helps him a lot. He'd stored it above the workshop at Ashwell. When the National Park bought North Hill, the people from Butlins used to come out when the camp broke up and have a binge up in an old ammunition shelter. They didn't cause any trouble. He went up there afterwards with a landrover and trailer and picked up enough empty Taunton screw top cider bottles to get £3.4.6d from the Rest and Be Thankful at Wheddon Cross. He took one of the bottles home and put wine in it and screwed it down. One day Jeff was working in the workshop down below and the bottle exploded and the wine came through [laughs] and Jeff, was catching the wine in the top of his flask. But he learnt a lesson, never screw wine down when you first bottle it.

But he enjoys making wine. He started when his wife's uncle from Taunton (a train driver) gave him a recipe for elderberry wine. That was the first he ever made. It's a lovely wine. When he used to come back on a horse or whatever in the winter, when it was cold, he'd pour it into a milk saucepan and heat it, and watch it because it reacts exactly like milk does as soon as it comes to the boil, and just before it boiled he'd pour it into a mug. It makes your ears feel and look like a guineafowl's wattles. The ends of your ears go all bright red and they are red hot.

But he's always made wine. When his grandchildren were growing up, his son was in the Falklands and his 2 granddaughters were at boarding school in Wales, they came here [Backwoods] [in the holidays] - one of them is 23 now, the other is 21. He'd always said he'd lay down some wine for their 21^st birthday. When he asked his eldest granddaughter, Phillipa [?sp], who is a qualified physiotherapist now in Taunton, what she wanted for her 21^st birthday she asked if he could arrange for the hounds to meet at Backwoods. So they had a party there, they drank about 4 gallons of home made wine, and 6 bottles of whisky. It was a good meet [laughs]. And he laid down a 10 gallon barrel of grape for his second granddaughter. That was a beautiful wine.

[BJ asks how he know how long it will keep] He doesn't touch it until it's 2 years old. He's filled the barrel up this year with gooseberry, because he made 15 gallons. He has filled it with plum, and he's filled it with grape. Then when it's at least 2 years old and there's a special occasion he siphons it off into gallon demijohns. They had it on his son's 50^th birthday, and his daughter and son-in-law's 20^th wedding anniversary was this year. They had about 70 guests. They won't touch the stuff you can buy £3 a bottle if he's got a brew out there, which he always has. He shall have been married for 60 years in 2 years time. So the joke is, if they are still here, that the wine which he has laid down this year - 9 gallons of plum, 15 gallons of gooseberry, a couple of gallons of grape, 5 gallons of apple - has been laid down for his 60^th wedding anniversary [laughs]. When his daughter in law, she's a lovely girl, saw him making the wine this year she said without thinking, 'What have you laid this down for, for your wake?' [laughs]. And he said, 'I hope you'll have a damn good time when I do go, you've got about 70 gallons down there.' [Back to top]