CD2

(48 mins)
 

2/1

LEARNING PIANO / SINGING / SHEARING PARTIES / SHEARING / BEER

[BJ asks about music] Oh yes, she learnt the piano. She used to have to walk to Luckwell Bridge, to Warrs Farm, after she came home from school. Once a week always, Saturday afternoon. It wasn't always convenient for the teacher, to come Saturday afternoon. But usually. But through the Summer some times, she'd come home from school in Winsford and then go out to Luckwell Bridge. [BJ says it sounds like a lot of exercise] [laughs] That was exercise enough. She wasn't awfully interested in the piano.

They had a piano at home. Oh yes, they'd play it sometimes. [BJ asks whether they would have had a wireless] They had a wireless, she can't remember when they were really without a wireless.

Well, you'd play the piano just for fun. Sometimes somebody'd come in and you'd have a sing-song. You'd sing the old time songs. [BJ asks if her father sang] [laughs] Yes, he did, when they were sheep shearing parties. There was usually a do after. In those days, you sheared one whole day at one farm, and another at your own. And 6 or 7 went to this farm, or 9 or 10 depending, and they'd do most of their sheep in a day, you see. Well then, they had to finish it off with a do in the night, till 12 or 1 o'clock. [BJ says it sounds like fun] [laughs] She thinks it was. Yes, they enjoyed that bit of it, that was all right. But that died out, you see, they always do, these things.

[BJ asks if her father sang specially on those occasions] Well he used to sing then. They all did. The all sang or said something; they'd make a bit of a speech about the sheep and that. The one that was the boss at that time. Like a chairman, you see. They never did it after anything else, only sheep shearing. But then that died out, because people began to feel all the time they were taking going shearing, they might as well stay home and do it. But you see, they hadn't got these fantastic clippers they have today. It was hand shears. No, she didn't have to do that, but she usually sheared one, tried one. Well, it's easy to look at, them doing it, but it's like  milking a cow when you start, it's not so easy when you do it. They were given a lamb as a rule [laughs].

[BJ asks what she would have done during shearing] Oh, when they were children, they used to carry the drink for them. Take up beer, and cider and lemonade. It was mainly [thinks], let's see. In the very early days it was beer, but she fancies it got round to cider latterly. Yes, it was beer. Because, years and years ago they made their own beer you see. Before her day. No, she doesn't remember any of it being made, but thinking now, they used to go to the Crown and buy a little barrel. But after theirs [?they stopped], some were still making, their own beer.

No, they didn't make cider. No no no no. Because they hadn't got an orchard and that, you see.

[BJ asks if she helped in other ways, while they were shearing] Well, they would have to help indoors, but usually the women came, you see, from the neighbouring farm, would be helping. Like her mother would go down to Edbrooke, and different ones would come to them. But it was about the same to all the farms, just around. Not very many. They went to Higher House, the Stevens's there. Combe Leigh, Higher House, and out at Moules's at - they didn't have to go to Staddon, he used to live down at Lyncombe. They've been to Lyncombe shearing. And then Edbrooke, down there [Winsford]. That was the lot, her father usually went to, and her cousin, Dick as well.

[BJ asks how many sheep they would shear in a day] Oh, not a terrific lot, with hand shears. Between 200 and 300, something like that, between them. Because it's much slower than the present day, isn't it? Now it's whipped [off], and away it goes. [Back to top]
 

2/2

DOMESTIC WATER / LIGHTING / ELECTRICITY / MEETING HUSBAND JACK

[BJ asks when they got running water in the house] Well, she never remembers without it. But they didn't have a bathroom. The toilet was down in the garden, and that one had running water under it. But what a ways to go [laughs]. Well, they had that put in up Torre. Toilet first, and a bath after. Yes, they would have washed in the kitchen. They'd got a proper bath, as they call them, in front of the fire. They'd fill it up with the kettle. What a game. When you think about it now, now it is a bathroom to every blooming room nearly, isn't it?

[BJ asks about electric light] Well, they never had anything [breaks off]. They had a generator, well that's after she married, up Torre. But they had the lamps, all through her younger days. Oil lamps. There's one [points]. She brings that down now if they have a power cut. That was one they had when they were young. Then there was a hanging one, in the kitchen, besides the little hand once. But, since then, they had - what was it, they used to pump them up? Tilley lamp, that's right. Yes. [BJ says the hanging one in the kitchen must have been useful] The hanging one in the kitchen was very good, it used to give a nice light. But latterly [yawns], it was lights that would glow more. Then what was the other one besides a tilley, there was another one. Aladdin, that's it. Yes.

[BJ says she looks as if she's getting tired. MH says she can talk a bit more]

[BJ says she was trying to get a picture of the farm when she was young, because it's so different from nowadays] Oh much different. Much different than the electric. Because as you know, like now up at Torre it's still the generator, but then it's electric isn't it? No, they still haven't got electricity. They [the electricity board] wanted so much money. Enormous, the sum. She doesn't know what they were eventually talking, she hasn't asked.

Yes, she was there when they went onto the generator. That was since she was married, though. Because of course it didn't come to Winsford until after she was married, 1940-something, the electric. When they, you know, through Winsford there [check].

[BJ says she was saying her husband came from Stoke Pero and asks how she met him] Well the first she [laughs] she actually met him was at one of the shearing parties. He was coming to one, and his brother, from Stoke Pero. But then they parted after a while, and she met him again - he laughs about it, and his grandchildren - up on Dunkery. When it was the coronation, or 1930-? [thinks], 1940 they were married. What was on 1937, or 1935? BJ suggests a jubilee of some sort. There was a jubilee and coronation, you see, and they lit the bonfire.

[BJ says so you met him at a shearing party] Yes, she met him at a shearing party, then they went together for a while, then they parted, for a couple of years, and then she met him again there [Dunkery]. [BJ says so you thought he was all right after all] [laughs] Yes, that's it. Yes, yes, he was a very good husband. That's his photo there [indicates photograph]. That was taken down there [Winsford]. She was 26 when she married.

[BJ says that's when she was saying it was 1940 and she'd wanted to drive] They married in 1940. War broke out 1939. Well in 1939 she knew her husband was taking on Church Farm on his own. He and his brothers dissolved the partnership. One stayed on, helping them, but not in the business, if you know what she means. [Back to top]
 

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ARMY / DRIVING / HOSPITAL CAR SERVICE / STOKE PERO / FAMILY / MOVES / RETURN TO TORRE / SELLING CREAM IN MINEHEAD / CALF SUBSIDIES / DAUGHTERS

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She would have joined the army if she hadn't been getting married. You know, she shouldn't [?wouldn't] have stayed home. As you know, she had learnt to drive, and she had a car as soon as she went to Stoke Pero. Bought a car when they were married. Only used to use it in the Summer, because you could licence them for 3 months at a time. Ride the ponies in the winter [laughs]. Well, it was 3 years before Richmond was born, you see, after she married. He was born in 1943.

[BJ asks if she said she drove ambulances] She drove the hospital car service for the ambulance, for years. When they retired, down to Winsford, she wanted something [to do] and the doctor said it would suit her exactly, Dr Wilson. So she did that. Because her husband used to go [breaks off]. But they went down there see because of her father. He was over 80 and Mother had died. Yes, that was later on.

[BJ asks what it was like being a young bride] Out at Stoke Pero? Well, she didn't take so much notice of it. They were friendly over at Wilmersham. And, well, you see you were your own boss for a change. It's like BJ, she was her own boss. You know, you weren't under Mother and Father, if BJ knows what she means. She had a very placid husband, that's true. BJ knows Richmond, he's very much like him. Only Jack wouldn't have cut down all the hedges and done like he did. He would have [tails off]. He liked hedging and he was very good.

[BJ asks if she had all her children at Stoke Pero] No. Audrey was born there [Torre]. They weren't born out at Stoke, they were born in the private nursing home, but that's where they were living. She had 3 children, the 2 girls, Mary and Audrey. Audrey is up at Wheddon Cross, you know, what is it called, Lower House, and Mary's out at Challacombe [married to David Ridd, fellow contributor to the archive]. All farming.

They were 7 years at Stoke Pero, and then back to Torre. Because Dad was going to retire. Because Mother's father had died, old Mr Steer you see, her grandfather, yes. And she didn't let the property again. You know. They decided to go down there, Winsford, Thorne Cottage. It's just sold again now.

[BJ recaps - she came back to Torre Farm in 1947, her parents went to Thorne Cottage, and she and her husband farmed Torre Farm - and asks if that worked all right] Well of course it worked all right, until Richmond was going to get married, and Jack was 65 and he said - well Dad wanted the company, and he wouldn't come back to Torre, and they went down in part of the house see. It was big enough, like Colonel Wilson's doing, for them to have one end and Dad the other. [BJ says they've made it work very well, each time somebody moved] Yes. Yes. Both Jack's brothers had died you see. They died [indistinct]. They weren't awfully old, 65. But they were very easy to get on with you see, really. Very nice chaps too.

[BJ asks if she still made butter when they moved back to Torre Farm] Well, she hadn't been there long. No no no. Let's see, what was happening with the war? The war was just over, and she got a licence to sell cream. She had all the shippons and dairies passed, you see. Yes, she had to be inspected. They were very particular in those days. They came and passed it. Well, when they moved to Torre see it belonged to Miss Crick, and she did a terrific lot of alterations there. You know the kitchens, the back kitchens, were all re-done completely. And it was all fresh looking. When they decided to sell cream. And she supplied the Dorian at Minehead, see. Every day through the summer. [BJ asks how it got to Minehead] On the bus, at the bottom [laughs]. Run down 8 o'clock and meet the bus going. And they stopped right outside there, which now is Beelsons, what is it?, selling cards and all sorts. She always thinks about the cream. It was a big cafe then. [Asks BJ if she remembers the Dorian, she says yes] The Duffels [?sp] owned it, when she supplied it. She had proper cans made, you see, labels with their name.

And that went on for several years, until they started giving good subsidy for calves, and it was as well to put the calves with the cows as for her to stay there scalding 13 or 14 pans of cream a day. Hard work, you know. It really was [laughs]. But they [they] enjoyed it then. Well that helped out, because the girls went to the convent in Minehead. It was a good school Mary said, it was well worth it.

They've been 2 very nice girls, she's had [indistinct] with them. And they get on with Richmond. You know, their three, she's glad like that. There we are.

[break for tea and cake] [Back to top]
 

2/4

BUILDING BRENDON ROAD / DRAMATIC SOCIETY

[BJ says she remembered when they'd talked before, MH had told her about work on the Brendon road, in 1928 she thinks she said] Yes. From Coppleham to Brendon Two Gates, to widen the road. A lot of men came there, from away working. From different parts of the country. And they put up huts for them, over in Farm Cleeves, there at the bottom. Along the main road, before you get to where the Hayes's live [Northern Mill], before you drop down, down under there, they put up 2 large huts, one for sleeping, one for dining in, for these men. Because they all came from miles away, you see. The majority of them. But to start with it was done by horses and carts, which was done by the Polsford family, from Wiveliscombe. And then they changed to lorries. The same firm. They're known, the Polsfords of Wiveliscombe.

[BJ says is that when the road went from being a dirt track [hesitates] Well yes, it was like the narrow roads around, but not actually tarred. It was a solid bottom [thinks]. Can she mention any roads similar, like going up Ash Lane, about that width you see, not all the way like it. Very narrow. Well then they hand built it the long ways, put the stones on their edge. They didn't get much further than Exford doing it like that. They went up on past [tails off]. Yes, they started hand building it. From Coppleham. Yes, it was about 1928. It was marked on the bridges there, it's still marked.

Quite a lot of the stone would have come from Barlynch quarry, because it was a good quarry in those days. The majority would have. [BJ asks if that was how you built roads, putting the stone on its edge] Yes, that's right. They'd do half at a time. And it seemed a tremendous walk, because they they'd got the sidewalks, you see. You know, in case anybody wanted any more [?width] they could just take it. You know, there is all the way along, there's the width of - you're supposed to walk upon it she supposes, but quite a little width.

[BJ asks if the road changed course as well] No. No. It made it not as steep. Pin Steep was gradually sloped away. It went through Winsford. It didn't go round - they cut across outside the now garage, before you went round Calloways Bridge [laughs], you know, the other little way in round? Where Bridge Cottage is. That's where it formerly went. Of course it did. But then, it's several years ago isn't it, now?

[BJ asks about the road going via Kemps Farm, before it went up Pin Steep] No, she only remembers it really going up Pin Steep. It was before that the original road was through Kemps. Well, then there's one up by BJ isn't there, or is that where it comes to an end? [BJ says that was the packhorse route, past Nethercote]

[BJ asks if a lot of people came over from Wales, to work on the road] Of course they did. Yes, they did. They came from Wales, oh yes. Yes, because they belonged to the choral and dramatic society, some of them. For singing. Because they were very good singers you see. Yes, she remembers that very well. Yes, they did stay afterwards. Because there's Mr Bunn up there. Well, he's dead now, Jean's father. He stayed and married a local girl. Just a few of them did, and some went on again.

[BJ asks whether she was part of the dramatic society] Yes. And she used to go to Mrs Smallpiece's practicing for a play, and one of the lads came up from down there, two of them. One was a ginger headed boy. And Joan Tucker came down from Staddon. They did a play on their own. But Joan, for some reason, she didn't finish to go in the concert. [pause] But she's asked about her, she knew Maurice and Joan [asks BJ if she knew Maurice, she says no].

No, her husband wasn't part of the dramatic society, he was out Stoke Pero. Yes yes yes yes yes. This was before they - she's forgotten, she doesn't expect she, no, she wasn't engaged to him or anything then - this was in the early life, you know, when they weren't all that old. Because the road finished. And they [the men] belonged to different things there, the football clubs and that. [Back to top]
 

2/5

TORRE FARM MINING / RALEGH'S CROSS STATION / BUYING TORRE / SELLING STEERS  PROPERTY / MOVE TO LINDEN TERRACE / HEALTH / BOWLING

[BJ asks about mining at Torre Farm] Oh yes. In the olden days, the shafts go back now, in Ison. You can walk straight in, when they were working the iron ore, and they say they'll come out at Hoe Farm. Yes. Yes, the mineral rights used to have to be paid to the Crown years ago, but that's all done away with now you see. [BJ asks when it was last mined] Oh, she can't recall. Not this one. Her husband's cousin worked on the one out, near Ralegh's Cross, that was a big working line, wasn't it? Where they used to convey it down to Watchet [the mineral line]. That was done. The station was up near Ralegh's Cross, wasn't it? You can just see the windows, if you're driving back from Ralegh's Cross. That's what she's been told. In fact, she's got a bit of a book on it there.

 Oh yes it [Torre] was worked, but this must have been a number of years ago when it was worked, you see. Because the Golds [?sp] lived up at Torre before they did. And one of the Golds married Mr Crick, who owned Torre. Cricks originated from Great Ash. Yes, they rented Torre. They bought it just after they went there. Mr Crick decided to sell it. And they bought it then, before the prices went up [laughs].

[BJ asks whether she minded doing all the moves - they re-cap] She went to Thorne Cottage in 1965, when she and her husband retired. [BJ asks whether it was a wrench for her, leaving the family home] Not exactly, because she wasn't that old, but it was more of a wrench for Audrey, her youngest daughter. Because you see MH had got a lot to do down there [Thorne]. Her mother was dead, but her father you see. They had decorating to do, and before she got settled in for driving. And that was the year that Richmond married in April, and Mary in October. So there was 2 of them for Audrey to have gone all at once. It was a bit of a wrench. But there.

[BJ says and then you moved here - Linden Terrace] Yes, she sold that after [breaks off]. She sold one part before the whole lot of it, all the old buildings at the back. But it was too much the upkeep, it cost a fortune. And you see the insurance on it. Dreadful. They've done it up nice now though. But then it's the type of people that've got the money. Not an ordinary working man can buy Thorne Cottage, it's too big. It's a nice place.

[BJ says, and now you look after yourself and asks if she cooks for herself] Oh yes. If she's in dire need one of the girls comes. But at present, thank god - she had a bit of a heart turn, and she takes quite a lot of tablets, and one thing [and another], and aspirin and that. But, you know, 'go along' the doctor said 'as you are. You can bowl and you can walk, go for a walk every day.'

Yes, she's part of the Winsford bowling club. She bowls twice a week down there, Beryl Jack does. The two of them are the 2 old ladies. They enjoy it. You can quite imagine, can't you. She thinks it keeps one going. [Back to top]
 

2/6

COMMUNITY ACTIVITY / EYESIGHT / HOLIDAYS / SCOTLAND / DAUGHTERS / EXTENDED FAMILY / CHRISTMAS / ASHEN FAGGOT / JASMINE COTTAGE

[BJ says she seems to keep very active within the community] Oh yes. Yes. She can't take on things now, like you did. You know, she can give money rather than [breaks off]. It's age isn't it? You can't expect to.

No, she hasn't driven since she had the cataract. She was very much thinking about buying [a car], but she doesn't think he [the doctor] would let her now, because she can't see in that eye now. She had a cataract operation about 3 years ago now. This eye [the other one] is already - it's got a cataract, but it's no good, she can't see. So she's only got this one [the one that was operated on], and she can only see the television for so long. Yes, and read only for so long, and it will blur up. So it's not safe to take the car you see, is it.

[BJ asks about holidays] Well she had 2 holidays last year. She went to Scotland at the beginning of May. Mary, her daughter, went with her, on Wallace Arnold. And in September she went to Torquay for a week. She doesn't know what she shall do this year, it's getting company. You know.

She loves Scotland, she's been there several times. But she'd like to get about if she can. She may, but she can't expect the girls, you see [to go with her]. Because Mary has to look out to her mother-in-law and cooks for them. She's living with her other son, but. And then Audrey now, her mother-in-law is very ill again. So, she doesn't know. They've got their husbands, and if they go [breaks off]. Mary went with her last year. But MH mustn't carry [anything]. You haven't got to carry your cases now, they lift them all. She might go.

[BJ asks how many grandchildren] [counts] Five grandchildren, and the same great grandchildren. Yes, they all live within 20 miles of her. Challacombe's the furthest. It's really very good, isn't it? She goes to Mary at Challacombe at Christmas. Because her mother-in-law comes up too, and she's 92. And MH says as long as Gran comes up, well, she'll continue with them.

[BJ asks about childhood Christmas memories] Christmas ones? Oh, they burnt the ashen faggot, on Christmas Eve. You tie it with 2 or 3 binds, well they do burn it in little places like that [indicates her fireplace] but they had a long one in the open fireplace. Yes, 3 feet. And you'd have toast and cider. Toast on the embers. It's ash [wood] you see. You know ash will burn. And when the binds burst your supposed to have a drink.

She remembers up Torre, well, it was since she was married and back, but she had visitors there. One of them was the rower, BJ might know him, Peter Keen [?sp], to do with The Field? And he put a write up about it. He was there one Christmas. There were 3 of them. That's what they did Christmas Eve, they burnt the faggot. On Christmas day then, but in her young days, when her grandfather was living down there [Winsford], they had their midday meal at home and then they came there for tea and supper. And his sisters, which were her great aunts, would be down in the dining room, or the big sitting room round the table, she can see it now, and to start with they'd have a little game of whist. She had 2 great aunts, you see, living in, what do they call it? Jasmine Cottage now, it used to be Ashdale, that was the real name of it. Because that belonged to the family you see, they built it on Acland ground. Her great grandfather built it. She has a photo of him there, with the bells. And then, well they always had a sit-down cold buffet for supper, all around the table. And any of his relations, which was Reg [her cousin],  Grandfather's son [Herbert], who went to Bournemouth, after she was 8 years old. And his other son, who made her sideboard, got killed you see. The sideboard was part of the church, when it was restored. [Back to top]
 

2/7

CHRISTMAS AT GRANDFATHER'S / CHRISTMAS AT CHALLACOMBE / PRESENTS / FATHER CHRISTMAS

She remembers that very well. She remembers carol singers coming. Why on earth they were there on Christmas night, she doesn't know [laughs]. And they used to walk down and walk home, to Torre. She walked down in the snow. [BJ says walking home as well was quite a trek] It was. But she supposes her parents were younger, and she was only a kiddie.

No, she doesn't remember walking to church on Christmas morning. She goes Christmas Eve now always. Not here, but out at Challacombe, because she goes out Christmas Eve. When she used to drive herself she used to go Christmas morning. But if you couldn't drive, it was different.

[BJ says it sounds as if nowadays she has just as big a gathering for her Christmas as they did then] Oh yes, it's very nice. The midday meal's the main one, because David [Mary's husband] only has one brother, and he's not married. Then Henry, MH's husband's nephew - he spent a lot of time there [Linden Terrace] when she was moving up - he usually comes out from Barnstaple. But he's a very sick chap now. And just herself. About 8 of them. And then they go home after an early tea. Mrs Ridd wouldn't stay late, although she's only [nearby], but then they go to bed early.

[BJ says presents must be very different nowadays] Oh Lord, of course it is. Yes. Well, the little things meant a lot years ago. But now it's something bigger, isn't it? Of course they had their Christmas stockings, didn't they? There'd be an orange, and an apple, and some money in the toe. She liked teddy bears, so she expects there was a teddy bear. Better than dolls - she doesn't know about BJ? And anything particularly they wanted. She can't remember, because they weren't all that old when they finished with their stockings. Because they came home from school - she shall never forget it - and told her mother and father, 'We know who Father Christmas is now, 'tis you.' Mr Dicker [the master] had told them, just before Christmas. [BJ says that's a bit mean] It was, because they weren't very old. And of course, you see, there was no more in it, was there. Oh no. She often thinks about that, going home so big and [tails off] well there. We ought to keep [indistinct]. Well there we are, childlike, wasn't it?

[END OF RECORDING] [Back to top]