CD3

(58 mins)
 

3/1

FOOT AND MOUTH / BUYING CALVES

The foot and mouth episode started in west Devon and swept up through mid-Devon. When it began to get to the Barton at Knowstone, the next parish, and Owlaborough farm it was quite worrying because Owlaborough farm adjoins their. They [Owlaborough] had a strip of land about 50 metres wide, which had some wild boar on, which made them not the next farm. But there was a bundled [bungled] cull at Knowstone, a bungled cull was where the ministry were attempting to shoot cattle in a field with rifles. Unfortunately instead of rounding them into pens and disposing of them. And they stampeded and one of them broke away and came actually onto their land. There were no animals on that land, but it was a part of their land.

That was the first incident. A couple of days later they were slaughtering again on the adjoining farm, Whitefield farm, which is again the other side of the road from their farm. The police parked their vehicles among their [the Milton] animals, on their side of the road. The slaughtermen and the veterinary profession, which made them then a direct contact farm. Fortunately they only had just under 600 animals in that close proximity, the rest of them were away in another part of the farm, and there was no cattle at that time outdoors. But they did take those 600 sheep as direct contact and disposed of them, within 48 hours.

Fortunately at that time they had just got to the point where they were taking animals, unless they were directly affected, and slaughtering them and removing them for incineration. Most of them were loaded and taken and slaughtered near where they were being disposed of.  He didn't go and see them being removed, but it was heart breaking. You suddenly come to realise how lucky you were, you nearly lost the whole farm stock. He thinks, as a traditional farmer, when it comes down to it, some people would say, yes, compensation was being paid. But it's a lifetime's work. You get used to those animals. Your own breed, you never buy new replacement stock. It would have broken his heart almost, to have seen them, if they'd all been taken.

Fortunately they weren't, and the whole area gradually became free of the disease. But they were under 60 day observation for the rest of the animals, every other day, 2 veterinary surgeons looked at the stock, together with one of his sons who had to go with them. Very close examination of any animal that showed any sign of limping, or any saliva on its mouth. But they were clear at the end of the day. They did blood test every animal, before they gave them a clearance certificate, to see there was nothing lying dormant. It's hit the area terrific in income. They never sold an animal from 9^th February that year until December. That was the first sales made off their farm. The dairy farmer was all right, he sent his milk every day, that was rather amazing. But the livestock farmer suffered badly.

In December they sold some sheep direct for slaughter, to a slaughterhouse. And half a dozen cattle. They have taken part in video sales, very, very small. He's not particularly liked them. He thinks the livestock market is something traditional. It does give competition. Ultimately if you don't have a livestock market he thinks you are going to find the foundation and the base for obtaining a price is going to be difficult. You have to have people stood there willing to bid. It will mean that the big slaughters and the big buyers will have a monopoly if they aren't careful, if they drift into the video market. He's never liked the video market too much. Because if it could be seen in any way in the short term of being any success he believes it would encourage the government to perhaps discourage livestock market sales. Which in the long term for the industry he thinks would be very damaging. So he hasn't taken too much part in video sales, but there again that might be one of his points which he might have to be prepared to change.

[BJ asks how not being able to sell any stock between February and December has affected their ability to provide all there own feed stuff] The 600 sheep being taken was probably a blessing in disguise, as foot and mouth went longer than they thought. They have a farm at Withypool, where they have no animals on as they bring them back to Partridge Arms during the winter months, and they had not been taken back there. So they were able to make fodder from the whole farm at Withypool. That has probably been a great help. They could make fodder for a larger amount of animals that they have at the moment than they normally have. And fortunately they had a reasonably good summer, to enable them to do the larger acreage of fodder production.

So they haven't suffered too badly, and in the last couple of months, since restrictions became a bit easier, they have been able to sell a reasonable amount of finished lambs, a few cull ewes and some of the fattened cattle. Normally, they don't fatten cattle, they sell them on as forward stores for fattening to grassland in better areas. But unable to do that, they had got the grain so they could fatten off some of their own. Perhaps they've learnt something. Perhaps they might do more of that in the future, and finish the animal in the older fashioned traditional ways.

They have a mixed variety of breeds, but mainly Angus-Devon cross. On the cow side they only have a small number of breeding cows now, because they've leased off a lot of the quota, and they have drifted into a system of buying what's known as buss calves. That's the calf, as soon as it's weaned from its mother in the end of the year. They buy bull steer calves and bring them indoors for the first winter, and rear them on from that stage. They don't rear them as a small calf, they rear them after weaning. But that's something they drifted into other than as a result of foot and mouth. [Back to top]
 

3/2

QUOTAS / FARM INCOMES AND SUBSIDIES / FUTURE FOR MARKETS / FARM BUSINESS CHANGES / FAMILY FARMING / RUNNING GUESTHOUSE

They lease off a quota through local agencies. You are allowed to lease the quota for, he thinks, 2 years and after that you have to use it again or sell it. He thinks now it has just been arranged that you can sell it back to the Ministry of Ag. A quota is something which has been allocated to a farmer according to his acreage and his past usage. A quota is the maximum that you can get any form of subsidy on any farm holding. It is to stop abuse of the system of having a mass number on any small acreage. You get a higher rate for a lower density of stocking on any holding. It's a step in the right direction. But he believes there will be revisions of that system in the near future.

He would say that in the livestock sector of this hill farming part of the country probably 50% of the farm income would be from subsidy, at least 50%. Without the subsidy there would have to be some vast change in commodity prices to enable the farmer to be able to survive.

[BJ asks what he thinks the future for markets will be, post foot and mouth] He thinks you will see the market revise [revive]. He thinks there will be a revision of the way they operate as well. It's a little open to debate as to whether they will come back [in the same form]. Perhaps foot and mouth has hastened what might have been inevitable anyway.

It isn't only in agriculture. You read the daily paper and you see that many other things, big business and such, the country and the world even is under revision for the way they operate. You come back to the computer again, one man can now do what several did is causing a complete change in attitude, not always for the best.

[BJ asks how one man being able to do what several could do affects them running a family business] In the farming aspect, as he's said, his father on 100 acres years ago had 2 men and himself. Then JM came home and he could see room for him as well. Today, on 800 acres, they have his 2 sons and he is still around, and that's their full labour force. Perhaps that answers the question.

His 2 sons fortunately get on very well, yes have their cross purposes at certain times, but he mustn't interfere because they're always together if he does. But they get on well. The system works reasonably well. He doesn't know how the next generation will work because he has 3 grandsons and 2 granddaughters to take over in some way or other. He doesn't expect they will all go farming. Two of his grandsons are at the early ages showing very keen interest in wanting to go on with the family tradition. Yes, they are a little different from most because they have the farm guesthouse as a long established business, which runs ancillary to the farming enterprise. So they are not 100% dependent on farming. They can make changes in farming and have a little safeguard on the other side. But the guesthouse side of business would not be the same and would not be so attractive to people without the farming background.

The guesthouse side is run by his wife, who still enjoys it and is much involved, and his two daughters in law are both involved in that side of the family business. They also during busy times have a couple of casual help from the village. There is very very little employment in the village, so there are a few girls who are quite pleased to find a little bit of extra employment in the close locality. [Back to top]
 

3/3

GUESTHOUSE

They are open throughout the year except Christmas. Yes, the guesthouse is part of the house. As he says, it's long established. They haven't altered it much and it's like going back in time to come into that place. That's what seems to be appreciated. For instance, a couple of weeks ago they had a big London optical firm, the main owner of it comes there shooting in the winter sometimes, he wanted his 60^th birthday party to be held there. So 19 businessmen from Austria, Germany, Sweden and one from America descended on them, with their wives, and spent 4 days with dinner, bed and breakfast and celebrated their birthday business party there. That's the sort of attraction that the old world premises seems to attract, people get something different, something back in time.

They would have had breakfast, then some of them would go off walking on the moors during the day, they had their dogs with them. They have provision there for sporting dogs and accept family pets. You just make sure 2 dogs don't get too close to each other and take a dislike to each other. That's something you learn with long term management. They do find that a lot of people that love the countryside have a dog these days. The men went out just casually walking on the farm with their dogs, looking for a few pigeons, the occasional rook, a few pheasants. That was the city businessman, from Europe wide, enjoying himself in the west country for a few days. When they left they booked again for another party next November.

When they come back in the evening they have their evening meal, and a few drinks in the bar beforehand. He noticed that they've got a screen set up in one of the rooms, in this last party, and had a 'This is your life' in process which one of the daughters had devised over the last months to be shown at her father's 60^th birthday party in Devon. So it appears they had planned where they were coming long before they decided to book.

It's nice to see long term visitors come back again, and want to come back again. They have many young people who come back with small children. One a policeman's daughter, from Southend he thinks, who came back with her own children because she came there first when she was 5 years old. It shows that they enjoy the hospitality of the countryside.

Their own quarters are entirely separate, but they use the same kitchen. He supposes it's a very limited time that they're in their own quarters, but it's there if they want it. They're sitting at the moment [where the recording is taking place] in a small sitting room which is classed officially as the 'dry room'. When you run a licensed residential property a condition of the licence is that you have at least one room which a teetotaller can go in if they wish and request that no drinks are brought into the room. [BJ asks if a teetotaller could come into that room and smoke] They haven't got a smoking ban, but being so many small separate rooms they never get a problem because they seem to segregate themselves. The people who smoke are getting less and less. Discretely, if they see they've got a smoker (it's not his side of the business), the ladies make sure they put those guests in one small dining room (of the three). They put a smoker in one, a family in another, and the old pensioners in another. They can associate themselves together if they want to. It's something you learn by experience.

The normal number of people they provide for is 16. Nineteen was because they have a self-catering in the yard, a small unit which they use occasionally for larger parties, which then eat with the others. They can accommodate more people dining than they can sleeping. [Back to top]
 

3/4

TWO MOORS WAY WALKERS / PYLONS / RELATIONSHIP WITH GUESTS / SHARING HOUSE

They are on the two moors way footpath, the path from Dartmoor to Exmoor, which passes the farm gate. Normally they get a lot of people walking casually booking the night before, or during the day, for bed and breakfast. Again, one of the impacts of foot and mouth disease, since February and all through the season they never had anybody until October, then had 2 people walking the two moors way. That has been the full complement, when several hundred would have been normal. That's the main ones that come in off the road.

[BJ asks about all the big pylons which are around] They are a menace. They came in 1974, he thinks. Inevitable from progress, but he supposes that today they'd be put underground. He's sitting looking at one now. It would take him a long time to explain the battle he had about it going there, only to lose. And the battle is still going on after all these years. It's not one of the nicest things they could have seen. You do get to live with them, and take no notice. There are 3 other towers on their land, but fortunately they are far enough away not to give too much annoyance to them but they are a nuisance. Hopefully one day they'll put them underground for future generations.

No, they don't get wayleave payments. In their instance the sole right was sold out when they put them there, they only pay for any damage they might cause. That was the sore point, because they are always supposed to have compensated for the noise factor in damp weather, and they have never ever settled that reservation from the original contracts. It's an on-going legal nightmare. At the time, in '76, the sole right payment was just under £500 he thinks, for each pylon. In the instance here (it was just when his father died), it was agreed over the previous years 2 or 3 years. They took the full lump payments. Actually, they invested the money and it does bring over the years now quite a little income towards its tolerance.

[BJ asks if it puts people off visiting at all] You get the occasional one. Of course you can see the one from the house, 300 yards away he supposes. During the summer you won't see it because the trees are in leaf and you don't notice it. The only time is when you hear that hiss in the night of a misty or foggy night. And some people come down to breakfast and say they thought it was raining in the night. But it's a sore point.

[BJ asks how much he has to do with their guests] The menfolk know quite a lot of them, they meet them, they have a quick chat with them, answer any questions, get themselves associated. But the actual working side of it they have very little [involvement]. They mustn't interfere indoors, they are told. In the evening, you tend to join with certain guests that might be wanting a chat, have a drink and join them for a pint of beer and a chat. Some of their guests are almost personal friends these days. They have one couple who have been coming from Nottingham for 30 years, he supposes. They stay regularly. They'd be highly annoyed these days if they didn't take them [the Miltons] out to some hostelry for dinner one evening. A night out would be part of their enjoyment, and they wouldn't like it too well if they didn't join them. That's the sort of personal friendship that has built up. For instance at Christmas, they had nearly 500 Christmas cards, a large proportion of which had come from past guests, of all walks of life.

[BJ asks how he feels about sharing his house] He grew up with it, so he accepts it. And his 2 sons grew up with it. It would seem perhaps strange without it. This last summer, during the foot and mouth, it's been a strange atmosphere. He can't say he enjoyed it all. You could almost say they were lonely because they weren't used to it. Yes, there are times when you want to pick up and go up to the local in the next village and you are in the company of local friends you can talk to. You never go out just for the sake of it and have a pint of beer, because it's always available at home in the same atmosphere. It depends, if you want the pint of beer or if you want company. [Back to top]
 

3/5

RECREATION / LOCAL RADIO & NEWSPAPERS / MARRYING WIFE HAZEL / SONS

If he and his wife were there on their own in the evening they would watch television if there happened to be a programme worth looking at. His wife [Hazel] does a lot of reading. He is one of those that likes to perhaps play around, BJ might be amazed, but to repair a clock, for instance, is a little hobby of his. Little things like that is his entertainment. They don't play bridge of anything like that. He has always liked sporting events on television, a lot of the soaps and things like that don't interest them at all. They perhaps prefer the more serious side of television.

Yes, he listens to the radio. He always listens to Devon County Radio in the morning, to the farming programme at a quarter to six. A lot of them call it Devon County Radio but it is Radio Devon, yes. There are certain little quizzes which it is nice to listen and try to solve. He has only once ever listened to one of their quizzes which went on for weeks, a few weeks ago. No-one resolved it. He was sure he knew the answer right from the beginning, but never picked up the phone to tell them, until it went on so long that one morning he couldn't resist any longer. The question was 'Legend has it the devil'. The moment he heard it he knew the answer, the answer was 'Tarr Steps'. Because he can always remember his mother, who studied some of those old sayings, saying that Tarr Steps was built by the devil. He was right, so he's got a 'Good Morning Devon' mug now, hanging up on one of the crooks in the bar. Yes, he likes to listen to the radio. That or Lantern Radio, which is the North Devon version.

They are in a funny area there for local papers. The North Devon Journal is to its extreme, the West Somerset Free Press, the Mid Devon Gazette and the Western Morning News. So they have the Western Morning News 3 days a week and they have the Free Press and the Journal and the Mid Devon Gazette to try to get all the news of the area. Because they're not West Somerset, they're on the edge of North Devon, they're on the edge of Mid Devon, so it's rather expensive in newspapers to try and keep in line with what's going on. No, they don't have a national newspaper, the Western Morning News is the nearest they have. They never have a Sunday paper. He thinks they save on a Sunday paper because usually when they are full of resident there's always a Sunday paper available lying around in the evening. Perhaps they're a bit mean on that respect.

He married in 1959. His wife, Hazel, came from Uffculme, near Cullompton. Her family were builders, Andrews and Miller, a large firm of builders in that area. The Andrews had sold up to the Millers some years before. Her family were farming, at Corks farm, Uffculme, a big dairy and poultry production. He used to, in his teenage days, childhood days, be a keen horse rider in competitions all over the west country. Show jumping and gymkhanas. A friend of Hazel's, Ann Burrows, whose father used to live in the parish, he knew very well. And that's vaguely how he and Hazel knew each other. They were both in the Young Farmers Club and used to see each other at functions.

One evening he took a girl from Tiverton to Barnstaple Fair. Taking her back to Tiverton, well into the early hours of the morning, he came across a car with a puncture, with a young man and a girl in the car, near Tiverton. He stopped and wanted to know if he could be of assistance. This young man stood beside the car attempting to change the wheel, but in difficulty. He had a faulty lifting jack, so JM lent him his and got chatting to the girl in the car in the meantime and cheekily made a date with her for the following Sunday evening, when he wasn't listening. That turned out to be Hazel, the girl he married in 1959. It would have been 1952, when he met her that night. So, had he not gone to Barnstaple Fair, it might have been a change of circumstances. They married in 1959, 42 years now.

He has 2 sons. One's 41, the other 39. Robin and Rex. [Back to top]
 

3/6

WITHYPOOL MILTONS / INHERITING WETHERSLADE / SELLING HOUSE / LAND AT WITHYPOOL / FARMING WITHYPOOL PROPERTY / ADAPTING FARMING PRACTICE BECAUSE OF FOOT AND MOUTH / EXMOOR PONIES

The Milton family are actually a Withypool family. There are 5 brothers, if you go back into 1700s. He thinks they used to farm Landacre farm. They gradually split up, and he is the descendant of one of those brothers. He had an old uncle, Fred Milton, well renowned in the Exmoor pony world, who hadn't had any children. He lost his first wife and married an Irish lady, his second wife, and still had no children. He told JM's father, was that he wanted it to stay in the Milton family as much as possible. When he died he left the farm to JM's 2 sons. Wetherslade farm, in Withypool. Sadly, the house was in a dilapidated state because Freddie, when he died, was in his 90s. He was an old fashioned type and hadn't done much to the place. They had estimates for the renovation of the farmhouse, which were well in excess of £150,000 which rendered it not viable on the farm holding. So they made a decision to keep the land and sell the house, with just a few pony paddocks of the steep land adjoining it, and retain the land and perhaps look to a long term future of replacement of the house. That was sold in 2000, he thinks. He thinks in the dilapidated state it was in the house made £285,000. He sees on the deeds that Freddie's father had given £1200 for the whole farm, in 1909.

It was sad to take the decision to sell the house, but looking at business economics it was not viable. So they did the best they could. They still retain a herd of Exmoor ponies on the commons out there. They were his uncles'. Both his uncles were 23 on the Exmoor Pony Society's book, it was one of the early foundation herds. They keep those and still farm the land there, and hopefully shall do.

It was only 117 acres. They've got just over 100 acres left. Of course it's got extensive common rights on Withypool Hill, Bradymoor and Withypool Common, which they retain.

His 2 sons had farmed it more or less for at least 10 years before he died, he supposes, because he was in his 90s. So they got quite used to it. He thinks again, foot and mouth disease has made them learn a lot this year. Because they discovered that perhaps summer stocking there can be a complement to this farm by keeping your stock home for maintaining and surveillance and using it for fodder production for the farm in the winter time. Yes, it might have meant that they will be looking at the farming system in the future differently to what it has been in the past. As he says, he believes the future of farming is, if one's willing, to change.

Fortunately his 2 sons are interested in the Exmoor ponies, although the value of them in the last few years has been not very encouraging for them. Funnily enough, during the foot and mouth problems the pony demand for any sales for offspring has been the best for several years. But he would guess that the Exmoor ponies will stay in Milton administration on Withypool for many years to come. [BJ asks why his uncle had a herd]. He thinks many many farmers had a herd of ponies. It used to be quite a part of their income, if they had any moorland grazing rights over the years. He thinks it's the demise of Bampton Fair which got rid of the pony population on Exmoor. But he'd go so far as to say the better ones are still there. But perhaps there has to be in the longer term some assistance that they are managed in the modern era, because he can't see the economic price of the pony to be paying for its management, unless there's some form of conservation help towards it. What a shame it would be to see them go for ever, wouldn't it?

[BJ asks whether as far as JM is concerned they have been a cash crop] It's tradition, not so much the income from them. He thinks the income wouldn't pay the cost of management. It's a way of life, the ponies are part of Exmoor and they take the view, and fortunately his 2 boys take the view, that they are something they'd like to see maintained there for future generations. Hence there are one or 2 films which participated in, regarding the life of Exmoor ponies.

[BJ asks whether they are a means of moorland management as well] Yes, he thinks people are beginning to realise that the conservation of the heather moors, and the way Exmoor appears to everyone, would be vastly different without the Exmoor pony management. The Exmoor pony is a hard little animal. You've got difficulty to feed them, even in the hardest winter they're reluctant to eat anything you give them, they live off the natural produce of the moor. They're a historic breed, he believes [loses his train of thought, BJ reminds him she'd asked whether the Exmoor ponies were important to the management of the moor]. Yes, the management of the moor is where the grazing aspect of them is very essential. That is a native breed that ensure grazing, and they go for the right things and eat the right things and don't eat the wrong things.

One of the things he's bound to say, regarding the management of the moor, you'll find that over the years since the war the Scotch blackface sheep brought onto Exmoor. He believes that's one of the worst things that ever Exmoor saw. They eat all the heather shoots, they eat everything they shouldn't eat. The area that they've been used to grazing in the Highlands is a vast different geographical area to Exmoor, and much as they might not think so, he thinks the Scotch blackface has been the cause of a lot of the deterioration that the Exmoor vegetation might have suffered. It's next to putting a goat out there. [Back to top]
 

3/7

ANSTEY COMMON / BURNING MOORLAND / DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MOLLAND AND ANSTEY COMMONS

Part of Anstey Common belongs to them. Anstey Common has 5 different owners. Just under 200 acres of Anstey Common belongs to them. The owners are subject to grazing rights. But they have grazing rights over the whole of the 800 acres of West Anstey Common, between 7 and 800 acres. Equally, they've got grazing rights over the whole of Withypool Common, which is several thousand acres. Just over 2000 is it?

Burning the moorland has been quite controversial in recent years. It got a bit top heavy a few years ago and you had to notify various public bodies if you were going burning, and the time you were going to burn. But the person that thought up that one never thought about the weather conditions, because you can only burn when the weather conditions are right. There's no way you can give notice 14 days before that you are going to burn at such a time on such a day. It may be raining hard. So he thinks that has caused difficulty with some administrative ideas of burning. Although controlled burning in sensible proportions is essential to the conservation of the moor.

He has photographs of the area of land in front of Zeal farm on Anstey Common, in the 30s, covered in heather. Now, the heather disappeared, because burning didn't take place he believes for a number of years. The heather gradually died out. Now, about 6 years ago, they burnt that part of the moor again. He put up notices, went through the bureaucratic state, and fortunately the weather was fine. So they burnt a large portion of what is known as Anstey Money Common, or on very old maps known as Middle Common. That belongs to them. He organised the burning. He was only at Zeal farm last week, on a day's shooting with the occupier, and to his amazement, sitting having lunch looking out taking notice of the heather that had now reappeared on that portion of the common. He commented to Mr Pugsley, who is the occupier of Zeal. 'Oh yes,' he said, 'It's been noticeable since you burnt.' Indeed he said he'd seen photographs of it in the '30s, covered in heather.

He thinks burning is very very important. He thinks it unlocks something in the soil, or gives some form of fertilisation that gets back it's natural process. No-one wants to see Exmoor blitzed in any season but he thinks burning is an essential form of management.

He thinks Molland and Anstey would definitely change if the moorland wasn't burnt. Heather has a lifespan. It's the same as any tree. A tree doesn't live for ever. A heather plant doesn't live for ever. So, if you burn it, its seeded and the seeds get opened up and given an opportunity to proceed. The land on the north of Anstey Common had been smothered with moorland grasses and he thinks that when it was burnt it opened up the soil so the heather could regenerate.

No, he doesn't think it is being done enough. And one of the things that hasn't been done for many years is the south side of West Anstey Common. It has become very difficult and would have to be supervised much more to carry out a sensible burn because there is so much vegetation there would be a massive fire. You can hardly get on West Anstey Common for gorse. It never used to be there, it was covered in heather. Yes, Molland and Anstey are two very similar [areas]. Funnily enough, there's a difference. Anstey is a common, subject to rights of common, where under the legislation of the land Molland is not a common, though it might be known to a lot of people as a common, it's Molland Moor, which is privately owned by one person, a freehold, and has no commoners. Because the tenants of Molland estate, the law is no tenant can have a right over his landlord's soil. So Molland is not a common. Molland estate owns Molland Common. The word common is misleading in a way. It's not even registered under the Commons Registration Act. It was tried to, but it failed. He remembers the ruling at the time. So the claims of common rights by the tenants failed. Whereas Anstey has different owners. It's clearly marked on West Anstey by big stones on the ground. You'd need a map to work them out, but it's clear. It was divided he believes centuries ago to different landowners in the parish, according to their land holdings. [Back to top]