CD1

(72 mins)
 

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BORN MINEHEAD 1914 / FAMILY BACKGROUND / SCHOOL / READING

[recorded Dunster, 21.1.2002. Some background noise of wind in chimney]

Born Minehead 1914. Parents Robert John Upham, mother Flora Lillian. Father a builder, trade carpentry, speciality staircases. In those days they didn't get the parts made up for them, they had to do the measuring and decide how to fit staircases in. Every house different, with twists and turns, and he was very proud of his staircases. In fact he was a real craftsman. Signed every bit of work. If you looked under the tread you'd find 'R J Upham'. If anybody every complained and said he'd done bad work he'd say, 'Show me my signature.' [laughs]

He was very proud of his work. Once he had to put a mantelpiece in for someone in a new house. He had finished work about an hour before it was time to leave, so he decided that the overmantel looked a bit bare and carved some flowers on each side of the mantel, to finish it off, in the hour he was waiting. Yes, there must still be staircases of his around. One of them was in Tarr and Foys shop in Minehead. It used to be right in the centre of the shop, but they shifted it when the shop was altered. Quite a feature it was, at one time.

She had one brother, but he was a motor mechanic. Very well known in the area, served on various committees and was on the parish council there in Dunster for a long time. Very outspoken. He was called Leonard, 3½  years older than her.

He went to school in Minehead. She went too. They went when they were 5 years old. To the infant school at the top of the Holloway. Boys and girls together until you were 7. When you were 7 you were divided up. The girls went up to the big school, that's near the infants, that's used now for evening classes etc, and the boys school now is St Michael's church school, down Watery Lane. Watery Lane they used to call it, she doesn't know if they do now or not. You went to those schools until you were 14, that was school leaving age then, whether you had reached the top grade or not. 

Of course you didn't go up from one grade to the other automatically by age then. You had to be able to do the work that was attached to each 'standard' they were called. If you couldn't pass that particular standard you stayed there for another year, or 2, or 3. You never went on any further. That's why she can never remember - she was talking to someone the other day when [?about how] they keep on saying about children who leave school now and can't read.  She was saying she couldn't remember anybody in their school not being able to read when they left. Then she realised that if you weren't able to do those things you didn't go on, so the dull ones were left behind. So schooling wasn't as good then as she thought it was [laughs].

She enjoyed school. Yes, she enjoyed school, except for the last year, when she felt it was a waste of time because they seemed only to be doing the things they had done before. She really wanted to go on and learn more, but you couldn't in those days. She liked history and maths. And English. She loved writing stories, and writing essays. She could do that all right. She liked history. They had a very good history teacher, she used to make things really interesting. She thinks that has laid the foundation for her love of history all the rest of her life. She can't remember what she was called, she just doesn't remember. She can picture her, but can't remember.

She can remember their head mistress. On Friday afternoons, they did needlework. She came in one afternoon and asked everybody if they read books at home. They were in the standard 6^th by that time, and she was decrying the people who read comics. Of course a lot of people said they read comics. She said they wanted to read a real book, get enjoyment from real books, not just comics. She said, 'I'll bring a book in next week and start reading it to you,' and she did. And it was 'Anne of Green Gables', and they thoroughly enjoyed it. She did particularly, and she thinks that started her love of books.

But of course it was very difficult to get books then, because, she doesn't think - she's sure they didn't have - a library, not a free library, in the town. She thinks Boots, the chemist, had a library, which you had to pay to join, and it was only adults. Then at one time, she thinks it must have been soon after, she could have been 15, 16. She's not sure, she might only have been 14. And they opened a library in Minehead, in Bancks Street, just below where the library is now. Well, it was in a house, and they used the lower rooms, the sitting room and the dining room she supposes, as the library. And Norah Heal lived in that house, and she was the librarian. And she worked in the Minehead library for years and years and years afterwards. Oh, HP was in her element then, when they opened that. She nearly lived in the library. [Back to top]
 

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MOVE TO ALCOMBE / READING / READING NOW / TRAVELLING LIBRARY / BIBLE STORIES

She can remember when she was a little girl, they were living in Alcombe then. When she was about 7 they moved to Alcombe to live. She doesn't know why. Yes, she does know. When her mother and father were married, her father had bought a house in Cher. That's part of Minehead, you go up Bampton Street from Minehead, and where you start rising to the road that goes from Alcombe to Porlock, the direct road, the steep bit is called Cher. And they lived up there. Then one of her uncles got married, and they lived in with her [paternal] grandmother, and his wife didn't get on with HP's grandmother at all. So [thinks], they'd moved from Cher to Alcombe by then, but anyway, they had, Mother and Father. And her father said (to her mother), that they would go and live with HP's grandmother and his brother could have their house. Which she thinks her mother wasn't very happy about at all, but anyway, she got on with her gran all right. So they lived with her grandmother for a long time. And then, she doesn't know why, but Mother and Father decided to go out to Alcombe to live, and they had another house in Marshfield Road. Now she's forgotten what she was saying in the beginning.

[BJ says she was talking about moving to Alcombe, and libraries and reading] Oh yes, that's right. Well, when they were living in Alcombe, some organisation, she expects it was the WI [Women's Institute], used to give a Christmas party, for the children of the village. And they had a big Christmas tree, and Father Christmas and all that. She must have been about 8 at the time. And they had this party, and everybody had a present. And there were various children and some of them had books, and she had a doll. And she was so disgusted, she wanted a book. She can still remember how disappointed she was that she didn't get a book. Because books were so precious. They didn't get many.

No, she doesn't remember what she read. Anything she could get her hands on. She remembers when she was a lot older than that, she must have been about 15 of 16 by then. Her brother used to have a weekly magazine, 'Sexton Blake', BJ wouldn't know that, very adventurous, frightening sort of stories, which the children wouldn't take any notice of now, but they weren't so sophisticated as they are now. And she was away at the time, she wasn't home very often, and when she got home she used to read these magazines. And she can remember - the toilet was upstairs - and she read so many of them that she went to the toilet one day and she convinced herself that her brother was outside going to frighten her when she came out. And it was only the effect of these books she'd been reading. And she was scared stiff to come out of that toilet. In the end she did and there was nobody there of course. And she thought, 'you've got to stop reading those magazines.' [laughs]

No, she wasn't frightened of her brother, not all. Why she was like that, she doesn't know. It was just that she'd been reading too many of these horror stories.

She can't remember having any magazines herself. She doesn't know if they did magazines for girls. Oh, now BJ has reminded her, she used to read Angela Brazil, school stories. She can remember those. And she knows they had some annuals, books for Christmas, and she had a book about animals, animals all over the world. 'The Wonder Book', 'The Wonder Book of Animals'. And her brother had a 'Wonder Book of Ships'. There were lots of illustrations in those. She thinks that came from her parents. [BJ asks how usual would it have been to be given books for Christmas] Well, she daresay she had every Christmas because they knew she loved books. She expects they gave her one every year. She remembers her granny used to read her stories. One of the stories was about old country people, and they were having wort pie, and cream. She used to say, 'Put on your glasses, Nan, and read me a story.' [laughs].

Obviously, she's been loving stories all her life, and she still reads an enormous amount. She still goes to the library. They've got one there in Dunster. The travelling library comes around and stops just outside the school, for about half an hour, once a fortnight. And that's a great boon that they can go and get a book. She takes out thrillers, well, various things. At the moment she's reading the 'Just So Stories' again. Which is very appropriate because they've just brought out some new stamps, of 'Just So Stories'. She's got a couple of strips [laughs]. She was in hospital just before Christmas and when she got so she wanted to read again she had a look through their books they've got in the day room to see if she could find something she liked reading, and she couldn't see anything. She doesn't mind reading a light story occasionally, but she skips through them like mad, and you know what's going to happen from the first page, you know how it's going to end, so she's not very thrilled with that type of story. But she does read them occasionally. But anyway, the only thing she found on there was Kipling's 'Jungle Book'. And she thought to herself, 'I haven't read that for years and years, since I read it to the children.' So she thought she'd read that again, and that started her on Kipling.

She read the 'Jungle Book', and about Rikki-Tikki-Tavi, which was also in the same book. And then she thought she'd like to read the 'Just So Stories' again. She went to the library, and they hadn't got one. They hadn't got one at the school they could lend her. She had an awful time trying to find the Just So Stories. In the end she managed to get one at a second-hand shop. So she's enjoyed reading that again. And she's reading [hesitates], she's reading bible stories, by, what's he called, this rabbi, Lionel [pauses. BJ suggests Lionel Blue] Yes, one of those anyway. [corrected later - David Kossoff, not Rabbi Lionel Blue] Very well written. She's thoroughly enjoyed those. She read his 'Book of Witnesses' some time ago. These are old testament stories. She has a read of one or two of those occasionally. Anything that's well written she likes. [Back to top]
 

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READING AND KNITTING / CROCHET / GRANDMOTHER / FATHER'S FAMILY CIRCUMSTANCES / OLD AGE PENSION

Her parents didn't read a great deal. Mother did read, but she didn't have very much time. Women didn't in those days. To be a housewife was really a full time job. It took you all day to do the washing instead of just shoving it in and letting it do it yourself. HP used to knit as well. Mother got very annoyed with her if she sat down just reading. It was such a waste of time, you see, reading. But she found she could sit down and knit. If she was knitting socks for her brother, or father, or pullovers, she could do it all day, her mother didn't mind. Well, she had to help a bit, of course, but this was during the school holidays. So, she thought to herself, 'I want to read, she wants me to knit. So the only thing for me to do is to teach myself to do the two things at the same time.' And she did. It took her quite a while. Because she thought, 'Blind people can knit. So I'm sure I can knit because I can look at it now and again. So, if blind people can do it I can do it.' So, she taught herself to knit and read. And she's been ever so pleased she did that. She can even do a pattern without looking. Not too complicated of course.

Yes, she still knits. But at the moment she's crocheting more than knitting, because it grows quicker [laughs]. She's using up odds and ends of mohair wool there [indicates crocheting]. Somebody gave her a whole bag of odds and ends and she thought, 'What can I do with that?'. She's crocheting a big rug, a knee rug [indicates]. They were using rugs and that in the hospital and she thought, 'Well, that's something I can do. And I can give it to the hospital or somebody, when I've got it finished.' And it's a way of using up odds and ends. [BJ says that from where she is sitting it looks like knitting] Well, it does look very much like knitting anyway, crochet does, because it's all loops joined together, isn't it? It all grows by making loops. You make the loops with one hook, instead of 2 needles, so there isn't an awful lot of difference in it. [BJ says that sometimes there are more holes in crochet] Ah, it depends on what stitch you are doing. She's doing a half-treble. Which makes a longer stitch than an ordinary treble, but it's not as holey.

[BJ says it looks very pretty, in bands of different colours] Yes, it does, doesn't it? So she's gradually using up [tails off] It's such a waste, isn't it, to see all these odd balls. But what can you do with just half an ounce? [BJ asks if you could make a sweater like that]. No, she hasn't, but she could have thought of that, couldn't she? Oh yes, she would be able to. [BJ says it would make a very pretty sweater] That's right. She's been making hats, as a matter of fact, at the moment. Crochet hats. Oh yes, she's still capable of doing various things like that [laughs]. She taught her young neighbour to crochet this last year. [BJ asks who taught her] She taught herself. Well, she supposes somebody showed her in the beginning just how to do the loops. Well, everybody can make a long chain, can't they? And if you can do that you can gradually [learn], by looking. She had some instructions, but yes, she just taught herself to do it.

[BJ refers to HP's grandmother reading to her and asks what she was like] A little lady. A little lady, with white hair. HP's still got her specs, that she used to use, the old fashioned [kind], with wire rims, you know, thin wire? Well, they're coming back like the very modern specs that people are having now, with the very narrow [breaks off]. Very oval, not round. Well, she's got new ones on, but they weren't quite as wide as hers [HP's]. Oh yes, she was a lovely little lady.

Yes, that was on her father's side. She was a widow for a long time. As a matter of fact, HP's father had to go to work when he was 10 years old. He had to leave school. He had passed his standard 4 - they could leave school if they'd passed standard 4. His father was an invalid. What was wrong with him she doesn't know. He was a craftsman, a carpenter, as well. But the only thing he could do was sit up at his carpenter's bench and carve. And he used to teach various young men how to carve. She's got quite a bit of carved furniture, that he did, with her father's help. Well, of course that didn't bring in very much money and there was no [breaks off] The only help you could get then was parish relief, and people wouldn't take that if they could possibly help because that was very demeaning, to be on parish relief.

So her father had 3 younger brothers, He was the oldest of the family, so he had to leave school when he was 10 years old and go to work. And his first job was in a bakers shop in Minehead. He never told her very much about it, but they used to bake the bread in the very big ovens at the side of the [breaks off], well, they used to light a fire in the oven and make it white hot, and put the bread in, and take it out by the long paddles. Yes, he worked there. And then she supposes he managed to get an apprenticeship with a builder, with carpentry. [Back to top]
 

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FATHER'S FAMILY CIRCUMSTANCES / GRANNY'S BACKGROUND / MOVE TO DUNSTER 1935 / BOYS IN PETTICOATS / MATERNAL GRANDFATHER / MINEHEAD HOBBY HORSE

[BJ asks how the family survived] Well they did manage to survive. She supposes then the next brother also left school, because he wasn't very much younger. They must have left school one after the other, and earned a bit of money, and they managed to live. But it was very hard, very hard going. She doesn't know whether there were any other relatives who used to help out. There could have been, but she doesn't know anything about that. Because when all her uncles were married, and had left home, and her granny was living in the house, Summerland Road it was, she was one of the first people to get the old age pension. And she believes it was 5/- a week to start with. She remembers, when she [grandmother] was older, it was 10/- a week, but she believes when it began it was 5. And all of her sons used to give her so much as well, to help her live, when they were all working they each contributed to her every week. She was thrilled when she got her 10 shilling pension, she thought she was rich. When she got the 10/- one, it was wonderful.

No, she didn't own her house, that was rented. She doesn't know who they rented it from. Children weren't told these things. You were really kept in ignorance, until you were, well, she doesn't know that they ever told you their business really. You just found out by [tails off]. Later on in life, when you did get talking to one another, they would tell you things. Her granny told her that her husband originally was an estate [agent], like a clerk of the works to various big estates. And they used to live in Bristol. And they were working for one family and they went to Ireland, and he was the estate agent for this gentleman in Ireland. And then the gentleman had a son who was a waster, and he gambled all the money away, so that's why they had to come back again to England. But she said both HP's father and his oldest brother started school in Ireland. She used to say she often thought of them going up over the field, and they were wearing petticoats.

Because they used to keep boys in petticoats, until they were 5 or 7 years old [wind starts blowing in chimney]. She remembers when she came to Dunster first of all, that was 1935, and there was a boy who lived quite close to them. And he wore petticoats, until he went to school, until he was 5. He wasn't britched until he was going to school. But that was the last one she can remember. It would have been very unusual then [when they were in Dunster]. The boy babies were dressed the same as the girl babies, until they were, well, she supposes until they were walking, or crawling. But it was very unusual to keep them in frocks until they were 5. [BJ asks whether he would have got teased, being in a frock] She doesn't suppose so, really, because he wouldn't have mixed with many other children. Of course he would have been put into britches before he went to school, because then he would have been teased, for certain. No, he wasn't at school, that was before. She thinks he only went into trousers - or was britched as they called it - when he went to school. But she's never known any other child, so that must have been the last of that idea.

No, she didn't know her grandfather. Neither of her grandfathers, nor her other grandmother. Her mother's mother died when her mother was about 18. She died of TB. So she never knew her other grandparents. Her mother's father was a cabinet making. Yes, in Minehead. He worked for Henry Woods, she doesn't know whether they were Henry Woods when he was working.

Apparently, he was rather a lively old boy. They used to have the hobby horse, of course. And a new policeman came to Minehead and wanted to stop the hobby horse. They were rather rowdy and it was rather dangerous she thinks, years ago, and they things they used to get up to. And there was rather an outcry against this policeman, who was trying to stop it. At one time they had a procession, and a bonfire. It must have been Guy Fawkes, she supposes, and they made an image of the policeman, to burn. And her grandfather made a coffin, to put him in. [Back to top]
 

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HOBBY HORSE / LIFEBOAT DAY

Whether it was the hobby horse time, or Guy Fawkes, she's not sure. But that's what caused the fire that there was in Minehead, a very disastrous fire, long before her time. They had an oil barrel, you see, a tar barrel, that they were rolling down through the street, and set it alight. And it caused houses to burn. It was a very disastrous fire in Minehead. So you can understand the police trying to calm it down a bit.

It must have been her mother who told her that story. She can remember when the police were trying to stop the hobby horse. She was even slightly involved in it. Because it was when they were still living in Summerland Road. Summerland Road houses have a back lane, and back doors open into the little gardens at the back of the houses. It's still there, of course. And she can remember going out - she couldn't have been very old, because she says, they went to Alcombe when she was 7, and it was before then - and she was out with her friends in the town, after the hobby horse. And suddenly the hobby horse started racing, and all the people after it, and the police trying to catch the man who was in the hobby horse. And they went all up their back lane, and she knows they [the children] ran as fast as they could to get inside the back gate so they were out of the way. She can remember well that confusion. They never stopped it of course. They couldn't stop the hobby horse. But they tried several times.

She doesn't know why they wanted to stop it. She supposes all sorts of things used to go on. They used to swing the tail round, and if enough people wouldn't give them any money, you had to watch it, you'd get caught with the tail. Now, it's all fun. Although they swing the tail round, they don't try to hurt anybody. But then they would. They would. And of course the men would have too much to drink before they got in the hobby horse. They'd visit all the pubs, and had several days real [tails off]. Now of course they collect for charity, but then she thinks they were collecting for themselves.

The tail would have been made of rope. Quite thick rope. With a big knot in the end. So if you got caught when it was swinging round, with a flying rope [tails off].

She can remember seeing the lifeboat being pulled, on lifeboat day. She was a lot older then. It was the old-fashioned lifeboat. The big wooden boat, that they rowed with oars. There would be about 6 or 8 men with oars in the boat when they had to go out to sea. And they had like a big timber carriage, and 4 horses to pull it, and they used to parade around the town on lifeboat day. All poshed up. Newly painted, and clean. And the lifeboat men were there, with their uniform on. She can just remember seeing that. She thinks it would have been painted red, red and brown. She's sure it was red. Lovely big carthorses pulling the boat. Because it was very heavy of course. The timber carriages were heavy themselves, without the boat on top. When you think that was the type of boat that was pulled from Lynmouth to Porlock, to be launched, the famous thing that they did. It makes you wonder however they coped. But of course they had a lot of men, and a lot of horses, to do that, didn't they? Still.

Yes, she saw the lifeboat go out. Everybody used to turn up to help get it out, and to pull it back. Although they had horses as well, there were people there too. Yes. It would have gone out for any ship that was in trouble, in the Channel. Just like they do now. Launch the lifeboat, try and take the people off the sinking ship, or get the ship back into harbour if they could. [Back to top]
 

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MOVE TO ALCOMBE / ALCOMBE / LADY CROMER / ALCOMBE GIRL GUIDES / ALDERSMEAD / SUNDAY SCHOOL TREATS

When they moved to Alcombe they lived in Marshfield Road. Of course it was a lot different then to what it is now. They lived on the left hand side, as you go down. And they lived nearly in the last house. Just below them was the electric works, and there were 2 houses below them and the man who looked after the electric works lived in one of them.

There was no houses the other side of the road. Fownes Road wasn't built, nor Meadow Road, or Hayfield Road. Nor the Co-op, no shops up the top of the street. They didn't have the new Alcombe hall there, it was just Victoria Rooms, they called them. When they rebuilt the village hall, the Victoria Rooms were taken down and used as a church hut, re-erected in the church grounds. She can remember Lady Cromer opening it. She can only have been about 7 years old, she thinks. There were lots of people at the opening, and she had a silver trowel to put the mortar on, and lay the foundation stone.

The Cromers had a country house, called Aldersmead. Up the top of the Alcombe Combe. The house is still there. They used to come down every so often from London. They are the banking family, the ones that were in trouble a little while ago. Her son, Roly, he was Governor of the Bank of England. But they had their own bank, whatever is it called, a bank that was in trouble, there was a man who swindled [BJ suggests Barings]. Baring, of course. They had 2 daughters and a son. The son was the youngest one. Lady Rosemary Baring [now Rosemary Hills - fellow contributor to the archive] and Lady Violet. And they used to come down on their school holidays and stay, for quite a long time, and they formed the Alcombe Girl Guides. HP belonged to the Alcombe Girl Guides and they used to go up to Aldersmead for their meetings. They had a lovely time, up there, as BJ can imagine. They used to have bonfires in the fields, and sing songs, and what not. And they used to let them try the ponies. Oh, they had a lovely time. It was quite a long way to walk up from Alcombe, to where they lived, but still.

Oh yes, she knew the daughters. They were patrol leaders and all. They joined in with everybody else. And of course the brother was a little boy of 4 or 5 years old, then. [BJ asks what they did] The usual girl guide meetings. They also went on camping holidays. She remembers particularly they went down to Braunton one summer, that's the one she remembers mostly. She remembers going to a farm and fetching some hay to fill the palliasse cases, to sleep on. Of course they had to cook their own food. It was quite fun. Great fun. Of course the big thing was to go anywhere out of the village. For Sunday school treats, one year they went down to Horner Woods, and had tea in the big barn, cut rounds and cream, with a lot of jam on top. And they used to have races in the fields. And the next holiday, the next year, they went up to Holford Glen. They used to alternate those. But that was as far as you went. It was a great experience. And a lot of the children were sick on the bus, just those short distances [laughs], because of course they never rode on buses, or anything like that. [Back to top]
 

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ALCOMBE / CHILDHOOD / HAYFIELD / ASTHMA / MILK ROUND / 1976 SNOW DELIVERIES

When they moved to Alcombe, she was telling BJ, nothing was built up there at all. There was a very high bank - of course the roads were narrow too - there was a very high bank at the top of, which is now Fownes Road, where the Co-op is now. A very high bank. They used to sit with their legs dangling over the edge of the field, taking car numbers. A car would only go through about once every 10 minutes. You could be there all day and only fill up one page of your notebook. She did that with various friends, Molly Uppington, Ernie Lewis, Babs Webber. There was another girl, she can't think of her name. There were several of them. They used to have real little gangs to go round. She knows once they made a lovely camp, on the top of a hedge. There were trees growing on top of the bank, hedge, and they could walk from one side of the field to the other, with nobody seeing them, where they'd made a walkway, all the way through this hedge. And every now and again you had to pick a tree, and you could climb up and that was your spy [place], to look out and see what was going on. Oh they used to have a lovely time.

[BJ asks what would they be wearing] They would wear dresses. The girls didn't wear trousers in those days. What did they wear on their feet? They must have had shoes, she supposes. It wasn't boots. She wore boots. She can remember the little boots she wore when she went to infant school, little ankle boots they were. Laced up. They were brown. She was very proud of them, she loved her little ankle boots.

When she went to Alcombe to live, when they went there first of all, it was like going into the country to live, for her, after living in [Minehead]. It was a long way, you know, for a little child, from Minehead to Alcombe. And they went out of the back gate into the hayfield. It was that time of the year. And of course the farmers then, would encourage you to go into the hayfield. And they used to go in and throw the hay about, and make houses in the hay. [BJ asks why were they encouraged] Because it helped the grass to dry. The men would have to go in with pitchforks, and throw the hay up into the air, to stir it up, to help it to dry. And of course if [we] children went in and threw it about they were doing the work of a man, and having fun.

But everybody went into the hayfield. Fathers, mothers, all, used to take the tea in and sit round, you know, and have a picnic. It was really lovely. All those sort of things are gone, aren't they? They used to have a lot of pleasure.

[BJ clarifies whether they picnicked in the hayfield, even though it was nothing to do with haymaking] They weren't anything to do with it, really. But they were encouraged to go in and play, in the hay. And they would have picnicked there as well. One year, when she was older though, she suddenly lost her sight, and somebody had to lead her home. And that was the beginning of her hay fever, and she started to suffer from hay fever after that. But it was to do with the pollen in the hay. Yea, she quite lost her sight that particular day. It was quite frightening. She doesn't suppose it lasted very long, she supposes she was all right the next day. She doesn't really remember, except she does remember going blind.

She doesn't remember it affecting her like that the next year. It must have been some special grass that was in the crop that year. Because she never really suffered with hay fever until, until she was in her 30s. And then she had it for years and years after that. It was most trying, a most trying complaint. Dreadful. The irritation you get from it is really shocking. Because more and more people get it nowadays, don't they? She doesn't know why. She doesn't have it so much now. But then, of course you can get anti-histamine tablets now, which she does from the doctor every year, so she only gets a few sneezes, or a little bit of tickle now. But it would nearly drive her mad at times. You would feel like scratching your soft palate to death if you could.

She was living here in Dunster when it started. It was about the time that she was carrying her first child. No, she couldn't have been in her 30s could she, she was younger than that, it was in her 20s. She was in her 20s before she started having it every year.

The hayfield at Alcombe most probably belonged to the farmer who lived in [hesitates] Alcombe Cross, that's right. Cross Farm, it was called. Right there, where the road comes down from the church, the Dunster road comes down, and meets the main road. There's a farmhouse right there. They've just been doing it up, she believes converting it into 2 houses. She thinks the farmer was called Adams. She expects it belonged to them. There was another farmer, up towards Alcombe Combe, he was called Webber. They used to come round the village with milk, the pony and cart. They had the big churns, you know, and you went out with your milk jug. One of his daughters used to come round, with the milk, nearly always. And she had special measures, pint and half-pint measures, to dip into the milk churn. It was a tall measure, with a long handle and a hook on the end, and she could hang the measure then on the lip of the churn. So you got your milk dipped up.

It was rather funny, it's reminded her about it, because some years ago they had a lot of snow there [in Dunster]. It stopped everybody moving, nobody could deliver anything. The milkman couldn't come, farmers couldn't get their milk collected from the farms or anything, because of the ice and snow. And they had a farmer from Avill, who had his cows and didn't know what to do with his milk of course. And he could get around a bit - it wasn't that they couldn't get their milk out to the main road, the tankers couldn't come through to collect it - and he had his tractor, and he filled up a couple of churns, and he sold churns and brought it into the shop every day [Parhams, where she was then] and people came to the shop with their milk jugs, and their bottles. So, they were dipping milk out again [laughs]. All the hygienic bit all went for a burton then. [BJ asks whether that would have been 1963]. There was another one wasn't there, later than that, '70 something, wasn't there? [BJ says she thinks it was 76]. They had the helicopters then, taking things out into the countryside. They used to land, where it is now the Dunster car park, at the top of the Steep, helicopters used to come down there and land, and pick up things to take out, to Winsford and people way out over the [breaks off], hill country. [Back to top]
 

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MINEHEAD SCHOOL / LAUNDRY LESSONS / GAS IRON / COOKERY LESSONS

[BJ asks if she still read as much after she moved to Alcombe] Oh yes. Yes. Well, they were there from the time she was about 7, until she was about 15. Then they went back into Minehead again. Father bought a house in Queen's Road, then. That would be about the time when the library was opened, you see. Because, they used to have to walk when she was there. In Alcombe, the village was almost cut in 2. The old village was above the main road, and all the children who lived in the older part of the village, about the main road, came to Dunster to school. They children who lived below the main road, like in Marshfield, went to Minehead. So she supposes it was how the parishes were. Although they were in Alcombe parish, which belonged to Dunster parish as well, so she doesn't see why. That's how it always worked.

So of course she had to walk from the bottom of Marshfield Road, right up to the higher town, to school. It was quite a long way to go. It would be 2 miles for certain. You think of the supermarket now, Tesco's, and you think of the church on the hill, and their school was near the church up on the hill. So you can tell, it was quite a long way, to walk. When it was very wet weather - of course the had the brickworks working, in Alcombe, where Marleys made bricks. From there, all the way down through there, there was a stream of water, came down. Well, she supposes it's still there and they've put it under ground now. And it used to flood the road, Ponsford Road. As you turn into Alcombe, by the middle school, you go down to Ponsford Road and go down, or you can go straight on up to the town. Well, they used to have to cross it to go up to the town. And that crossing used to get really flooded. And there was an old chap, lived up in the brickyard houses, and he used to bring his donkey down and give them rides, across the flood. Till they could get on the hedge, and walk further up. Then he'd go back and get some more children to cross [laughs]. So that was quite good fun.

And when they got to school, of course they were very wet, because they hadn't got mackintoshes, or wellington boots, and the teacher used to hand their wet clothes all the way around a big fireguard, that enclosed an old tortoise stove. Which was a big round stove, that burnt coke. It used to stand right out in the middle of the classroom, with this big iron fireguard all the way around it, and a big pipe went on up through, to the chimney. And their clothes dried all the way round that. And if they had a nice teacher - of course they used to take sandwiches to school for their lunch, which was mostly bread and jam, or something like that - the teacher would have a kettle of water on the tortoise stove and make them cocoa. They wouldn't all do it, but if they had a nice teacher she'd do it for them.

They used to go down to the boy's school for laundry lessons. A laundress used to come once a week. They had one girl, she was always in trouble, and she didn't get on very well with the laundry person, the laundress - she was called Miss Twist. And you were supposed to bring some clothes to wash, you see, and you would be taught how to wash white clothes, and then coloured clothes. And you'd have woollens, and various things. Well you had to take the things yourself, you were supposed to. If you didn't, she always brought some things to be washed. So, this girl didn't bring anything this particular day, so the teacher gave here this cellonese petticoat, made of silky material, to wash. Of course after they'd washed it they had to hang it out and do everything they were supposed to do. The whites for instance, you had to starch them, and blue them. This girl by the way, if she was washing handkerchiefs belonging to the teacher, she would put them in the starch, which of course she knew she wasn't supposed to, but she made them as hard as boards [laughs], got up to all those sort of capers.

Well, anyway. This day, when she was doing the cellonese petticoat, when we came to the ironing - and we used the old gas iron. [BJ asks about gas irons] She supposes they were filled with water, she can't remember [thinks]. No, she doesn't think they were. But anyway, they were heated by lighting the gas, you see, which was inside the iron somehow or other. It was rather dangerous for children to be using, wasn't it? But still, that's what they used. They were told how to adjust the heat according to what they were ironing. But anyway, this girl had the iron too hot, and she put it smack down right in the middle of this Celanese petticoat and took out a piece the shape of the iron [laughs]. Dear or dear. She was always doing something.

They were taught cookery as well. They did laundry in the morning, and cookery in the afternoon. The children from Dunster school used to go in too. The girls used to go in one day, for the same thing, and the boys used to go in and learn carpentry on another day, into Minehead school. They had to walk in, of course, from Dunster. This was done at the boys school, down in Watery Lane, because they had particular facilities down there. [Back to top]
 

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TRAINEE TEACHING AT LUCCOMBE SCHOOL / CORRESPONDENCE COURSE / SALISBURY TRAINING COLLEGE / BOOKKEEPING PREFERENCE / ENTERTAINMENT / SOMERSET COUNTY COUNCIL LOAN

When she left school, she went down to Luccombe, to learn to teach. She was 14. She used to cycle down. It was just one big schoolroom, and you had all the children in the one room - there were only about 30 of them altogether, but the ages were from 5 to 14, all in the one room. And of course you had a schoolmistress, and somebody to help her. And in those days, the helper was called the monitress. They also had pupil teachers, at one time. But names were changed. Sometimes they called them one thing, sometimes [another]. But that's really what it was, a pupil teacher. It was a good way to teach, because learning by doing she thinks is a lot better than just doing everything by theory, and then you get thrown in the deep end and don't know how to cope with a class of children.

She was down there for quite a few years. During that time, she had correspondence lessons. And the schoolmistress helped her. She was called Miss Saville. And she taught her French, and algebra, and various [breaks off]. She helped her anyway. HP had these lessons, by correspondence, and what she didn't understand she helped her with. By this time, the grammar school was built in Minehead. It was the first time they held the examinations there, school certificate. And she went there to sit the examination. They had children from the school itself, it wasn't very many, because the school had only juts opened, and she went in there, and sat the examination, and she passed. And she went to Salisbury [teachers] training college after that, which she enjoyed very much indeed.

She lived in what is now the museum, in Salisbury Close. It belongs to what is the National Trust, she thinks, now. But it was called Kings House, then. they didn't realise at that time how old the house was. It had wonderful plastered ceilings and all. And they had a lovely little man, who was the chaplain of the college, and they had a chapel, down in the garden. The garden ran right back to the river. They used to have morning and evening prayers every day, in the chapel. Which she got to thoroughly enjoy. The only thing she didn't think very much of was litany, on Fridays. Friday morning, they always had a litany, and she used to think, 'Well, I don't mind. I'm a sinner, I know that, but I'm not a miserable one.' And she objected to keeping on calling herself a miserable sinner, because she wasn't miserable [laughs].

She was homesick to start with. But after she got used to it, she thoroughly enjoyed it. She really loved those 2 years in Salisbury [BJ asks whether HP might have come across Joan Bellringer - now Joan Smith, fellow contributor to the archive - who did the same sort of thing at Salisbury] No, she didn't know her at all.

[BJ asks what she wanted to do] She doesn't know. She thinks it [teaching] was Mother's idea, that pushed her in that direction. She would much rather have been a bookkeeper, especially something to do with figures and money. But, you really did what you were told, and what you were [tails off]. She enjoyed the college part of it, and being down at Luccombe was all right, but she didn't like it much afterwards. [BJ asks who would have paid] Oh yes, that's another thing. She got a loan from the county, which she had to pay back of course. It was an interest free loan, but that paid her accommodation and tuition, so they managed that all right. It was £200, for 2 years. Of course it was a lot of money then, if you multiply it with inflation. It sounds cheap now, when you say £200 it's nothing, but it's more like £20,000 now. [pause].

While she was at Salisbury - of  course they could see all that was going on, because she had a room right in the front of the house, and looked down the drive, through the gates and right into the close. And you could see the little boys from the choir school, marching down in a little crocodile to do their singing, morning and evening, in the cathedral. They didn't sing at evensong, on Sundays, and the girls from the college used to sing. They used to go in and have a practice before the service, and they used to lead the singing in the evening, so that was good. [BJ asks if she was musical] She could sing. She used to play the piano a bit but never stuck with that because she didn't practice enough.

[BJ asks what would she have done for entertainment in Salisbury] Well, they were kept pretty busy, working, but they played hockey, and [pauses]. They did various things that sort of helped with being able to organise activities after they left. Which was country dancing, for instance, so you would be able to teach it. And of course that was their entertainment as well. They did have a choir. They danced. And as she says, they played hockey. They went for walks. And they visited various interesting sites around the area. [BJ asks how they got there] She supposes they must have had a coach organised sometimes, but the lecturers used to take them round a bit, as well. They'd take people in turns. Sunday mornings, you had a rota, you had to accompany one of the lecturers to church, wherever she wanted to go. And she remembers one Sunday, one of the lecturers took her down to Romsey Abbey. Oh that was lovely, she enjoyed that, going down there. You could feel the atmosphere in the old, old [breaks off] you could imagine the rushes on the floor, in the old church. She's never forgotten that Sunday morning, she did enjoy that.

[BJ asks whether they would have gone to the cinema, the theatre] Oh yes, they did. They had a drama club, and girl guides, they had, in the college. All hoping of course that you would carry on doing these things, that was the whole idea. They learnt book binding, lots of things. It was very good, actually. [Back to top]