CD4

(74 mins)
 

4/1

DUNSTER NAMES / CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN / SELLING SHOP / CHANGES / MOVING TO COTTAGE

[BJ asks what would be the old Dunster names that are still around] Well, the Goulds and the Dudderidges. They've still got a Webber there, it's true, but the rest of them have gone. There's only the father and mother there. What else has there been? Then the Sullys, and the Vaulters. Various names like that. Bakers, she supposes, Winters. The Pooles, another family, and the Thomases, they've all gone.

Her son John lives in Taunton. They [her sons] went to Minehead grammar school. After that, John didn't go on with education, but Jim went to Hull university. And the boys [grandchildren] have been to [thinks] Nick went to Leeds, and Oliver went to London, and Andrew went to Leicester. Well Nick went to Glasgow afterwards, he's in Glasgow now as a matter of fact. He got his doctorate, Nick did.

[BJ asks what her 2 sons do] John was in the government hush-hush lot, up above Taunton. They've been closed down now. GCHQ, they call them, at Cheltenham. He worked for them. The Taunton branch's closed down now, so he took early retirement. Jim was teaching first of all, then he went into computers. No, neither of them went into the shop. Nicholas, that's the grandson, he's researching something-or-other in Glasgow university. Oliver is an actor.

[BJ asks what happened with the shop] They sold it. About 20 years ago now she supposes, nearly anyway. Well, her husband was getting too old to alter it. It really needed altering. You couldn't carry on as a grocers shop any longer, and it was the wrong time for their lives to change. So they sold it. Pity they hadn't held onto it for another 10 years, they would have got a lot more money for it. But on the other hand, they might have lost a lot in between whiles [laughs].

She supposes in the beginning they hoped it would remain a family firm. But when you came to realise with the alteration, with the supermarkets etc, the village shops were done for.

It was enormously different at the time they sold it. They'd finished with all their country rounds, and they'd got rid of most of the stock. When she came there there were at least 6 of them working in the shop, it may have been more than that. Then they were employing just a couple of half-timers [pause]. You just couldn't compete. They ought to have shut it right down to become a delicatessen or something, that's what they should have done. Just concentrated on the things a supermarket can't do well. But they were too old to be bothered.

[BJ asks when they moved into her present cottage] They moved in there a long time before then, a long time before. It was her husband's fault actually, it was his doing. They used to let the cottage, for holidays. And they had a rayburn in their at the time. And of course it made it lovely and warm in the winter. Well, her daughter-in-law in Hull was ill for years before she died, and she used to go up there every now and again, to help out and look after the children, and she used to go up and fetch the children down for holidays, and all that sort of thing.

So [thinks]. They'd had a fire in the shop, one year, and they couldn't live in the shop. Yes, the shop burnt. Not the whole of the shop, but repair work had to be done, and they couldn't live in there, because the ceiling went and all sorts. That's another tale. Anyway, that year, the last lot of visitors had gone, the same weekend as they had the fire, and they moved in there. Of course they had the rayburn on and it was lovely and warm, and cosy, and her husband loved it in there. So the next year, when they were back in the shop living again, when the visitors had gone he suggested they moved into the cottage again for the winter.

So they did that for several winters, they came in the cottage in the winter and went back in the shop in the summer. And she got fed up with it, because they were bringing more and more things in there, and it was like moving house twice a year. So, this year when she went to take the children back to Hull she said that if he moved back into the cottage she wasn't moving back to the shop again, they were staying there. So, sure enough when she came home he'd moved himself in. So she said that was it, they weren't going back. So they were living in the cottage for several years before they sold the shop.

No, she doesn't still have the rayburn. She wishes she'd known at the time, but he was getting really poorly, and he would insist on doing the rayburn and sweeping the chimney and cleaning the flues out and one thing and another. And it was too much for him - keeping on bringing in the fuel, you know? So she thought it was about time they had gas central heating put in. But nobody told her that she could change the rayburn into gas central heating. Nobody told her that. So of course they got rid of the rayburn. She always wishes she'd never done it, but still. She just didn't know you could do that. Yes, they're on mains gas. So of course they got rid of the rayburn then, but anyway it was ice and warm, and the gas central heating was very efficient, so that was all right. She kept an open fire in the other room [to where they are sitting], so they came in there to live then. [Back to top]
 

4/2

FIRES IN SHOP / LORRIES

[BJ asks about the fire in the shop] Well they had 2, they had it twice actually. The first time it started up in one of the bedrooms. [BJ asks what year/decade] 1950, perhaps? Take 30 years off now, would make it 1970 wouldn't it? Yes, it would be somewhere about 1960, she should think. And it started up in the roof, that did. Cor, the slates were flying off the roof. From this side of the building, right over the roof and down into the churchyard, they were landing. Yes, from one side of the building to the other. And, it was a Sunday evening. And there were a lot of visitors about, it was the end of September. And, do you know, the people formed a chain and in no time, all out through the front of the shop and up the churchyard and into the church - because they hadn't locked the church, so it was just as everybody was coming out of the church - and everything was taken from the shop, and put in the church, in the pews. And one woman from the village said, 'Mrs Parham, it looks just like harvest festival in church, doesn't it?' [laughs]. Somebody else asked what the vicar would say. HP said, 'It doesn't matter what the vicar says, the church doesn't belong to the vicar.' [laughs].

These people they shifted everything out, all up into the churchyard. And some of it went across into her neighbours' house across the road, the drapery stuff went over there, and the books and the papers and that. And some things came out the back way, because they could come out the back way as well, and went over in the shed. And in no time at all the shop was empty. Wonderful really.

No, they didn't have to close. Except for the smoke, which had to be cleaned up of course, it was all right in the shop. But it was the house part, that the damage was done to. And of course they lost a lot of personal things, clothes and all that.

[BJ asks what caused the fire] They think it was an electrical thing. But the next morning, there were several people on the doorstep, at about half past seven, to come in and help, with their buckets, and cloths and what not, to help to clean up, so they could get going again. And amongst them was their vicar's wife. Yes. That was Mrs McCormick. She's never forgotten that. And she came and she worked like a black, washing the shelves so they could get things back, and get things moving again. [BJ asks who else turned up] One of their assistants in the shop turned up, Marjorie Dibble. She was originally an Atkins. Her father used to keep the pub down there, the New Inn, it was called then. She was a really good trouper, was Marjorie.

The second fire was caused by the big lorries mounting the pavement outside. That was in the middle of the night, about half past three. A neighbour who lives just down the road, her dog started barking; barking, barking, barking. And she thought, 'Whatever's wrong with the dog tonight?' And she shouted, and no, it wouldn't stop. So in the end, for some reason she got up and looked out of the window. And she could see the smoke coming out. And she could hear, just like it was gunshots. And that was the plastic melting - they had an off-licence - around the corks. And the corks were flying off and hitting the next shelf above. And it was just like gunshots. So she sent her son off down the road to call the fire brigade.

Luckily that night they'd shut the connecting door between the shop and the house, which they didn't always do because they let the air flow all around the house, but it was closed that night. Which was jolly lucky because the smoke in the shop was so thick that the firemen had to wear their special apparatus to be able to find their way in.

[BJ asks how the lorry had caused it] Oh yes. They'd had lots of lorries - of course they've got difficulty in getting round the corner - and this particular lorry was a cattle truck, and it was loaded with cattle, and it was a double-decker one, with cattle up above as well as below, and it got onto the pavement and it kept on going forward and back trying to wriggle itself so it could get round the corner, you see. And - it had been done before by other lorries, but this was the final straw - it strained the electric cable going into the fuse box, and it set the fuse box smouldering. And during the night it flared up. And that definitely was an electric fault, caused by this lorry. It was within several inches. They'd seen it doing it, by day.

So she wouldn't go back in there again to live. She said, 'Unless you put posts on the pavement to stop any traffic going on the pavement, I won't go back in there again.' So they asked if there was any restrictions on that, and they said they couldn't stop them doing it, as long as they kept it back so many inches from the edge of the pavement, but they hoped they wouldn't do it but they couldn't stop them doing it. So of course they put them on.

[BJ asks how long ago was that] That was the second fire. She supposes it must have been about 25 years ago. It must be longer than that. [Back to top]
 

4/3

OLD WATER SUPPLY / CELLAR / LUTTRELLS / PLANNING DECISIONS / BOOKS ON EXMOOR

[BJ asks where their water comes from] She thinks they got the water to cope with the fire from Chapel Corner down there. Yes. That's where the fire [indistinct] was, down there. The water in the shop came from the front road. [BJ refers to a story HP had shown her at lunchtime] Oh yes, before there was water mains was it? How the water was down in the cellar? Well, you see a lot of people see the archway in the churchyard wall and wonder what it was. Well, the coach drivers say it was where the stocks were, but that's a lot of nonsense, because they didn't put stocks under cover. The people being punished were out in all the winds and weathers, weren't they? They didn't put them under cover so they wouldn't get wet.

Anyway, they're quite certain, and she thinks it's really been proved, that they got the water down from the hill behind them there. Because there's no river in the village up in the village there, and there's only a little stream that comes down from that well on the hill. So that if people wanted water for washing, because they daren't use their well water for washing, otherwise they wouldn't have any water to drink, they had to go all the way down to the river, down to the packhorse bridge, to fetch water. So they conserved all the rain water they could possible collect, and through their roof in the shop there was a trough went all through from one side of the house to the other, and the water was collected. They made a cellar underground, down this lane [the Drangway, between shop and next house, leading to St George's Street]. Somebody's got a little garden there now, but underneath that, there's a cellar where they collected the rainwater. They used it later on to keep their paraffin in, down the cellar. And of course the cellar would get flooded when they'd had a lot of rain. And they tried to dig holes in the floor, to let it soak away, but no way could they get down through that floor. It was so well done, at the time when it was made to hold water and it jolly well held water.

[BJ asks when she thinks that was] Oh it must have been a long time ago, mustn't it? Goodness knows when, she's no idea when they did it. And the roof was a domed roof, all done with bricks and made like the arches, with all the bricks going in so they've got a keystone and all. And it wasn't half difficult, when they wanted to get rid of the cellar, to knock that down and flatten the top. They wanted to do it so they could pull [drive] a car in there. That's why they did it, otherwise it would never have been done. But yes, they conserved all the rainwater years ago [pause]. Rather cunning really. They had a lot of wells about in the village too, where people got their drinking water.

[BJ asks how much of a feel HP got that she was living in a mediaeval village] Yes, well she supposes they did. She doesn't suppose it has altered all that much for hundreds of years really, until the turn of this century. This is where everything changed so, wasn't it? She thinks there has been more change in this hundred years than for generations and generations, since they discovered the wheel, she should imagine was the other big alteration, wasn't it?

[BJ asks whether the Luttrells leaving Dunster Castle made much difference] Well they did. Because they controlled 70% of the village. Their property didn't belong to them. There are certain properties there that didn't belong to the castle estate, but most did. Especially the High Street. And of course, they wouldn't allow things to be altered, you see. They didn't do much to keep the places in repair either, mind. But they wouldn't let things alter. If people wanted to open a shop, for instance, they had to apply to Mr Luttrell to see if he would allow it. And if he didn't think it necessary he wouldn't let them do it, you see. There was only one man made the decisions. But it's through the Luttrells owning the village for so long that Dunster is still not entirely spoilt, although things have been done that should never have been allowed to be done.

One of the main things that makes her so cross is, there was a lovely old window in - now what is it now? She thinks it's a candy shop or something or other. It's called Myrtle Cottage anyway, there's a lovely old wooden porch, part way up the street, on the right-hand side as you're going up the street, towards the yarn market. It's some sort of shop anyway, they keep changing what type it is, and it's got modern doors that will open like that [demonstrates inwards]. Well, you used to enter through the porch, and it had the most wonderful window, with oak beams all round the window. And of course somebody managed to get round the [planning] people and got them to allow them to take out and put one of these modern things in. Which is very, very wrong, it should never have been allowed to have been done.

And another one is, 2 windows, over the other side of the road. Bow windows, that are pseudo-Georgian she should imagine. And one of the places applied they wanted to put in one of these bow windows, and it was turned down. Well about 3 or 4 years later somebody else further up the road took another property, also applied, but they had a little bit more - they were in a bit more with somebody or other - and they got permission to do it. So of course they put in bow windows, and then these other people said why couldn't they do it, so they were allowed as well.

But you see, it's all wrong for Dunster. Because Dunster, where they've had bay windows, they're all squared, not rounded ones, but they all come out straight, straight and with big oak posts in the sides of the windows and the bottom and top. And these windows are all wrong, all wrong for Dunster. And that annoys her, when she sees that sort of thing. But there you are, some people can get round it can't they, and other people can't get permission for these things.

[BJ says she has noticed 'The Reclamation of the Exmoor Forest' and another similar book in the bookcase and asks about HP's interest in that sort of thing]. Oh yes, she's read all those. She's got one about the Quantocks there, the cover's all off but it's a book that is in very short supply. She's also got the old Luccombe one that was written - has BJ ever read that one? [BJ asks what she finds interesting, about that] Oh the way people live, she thinks, is the main thing. She's more interested in the people. She means, she is interested in the property, but she's more interested in the people. She likes to know how the people lived. [pause] [Back to top]
 

4/4

WOMEN'S INSTITUTE BOOK 'IN LIVING MEMORY' / WI / COMMON MARKET / POLITICS / WI INFLUENCE / RESOLUTIONS / LEARNING FORUM / MEMBERSHIP NOW

Has BJ ever read the WI book, 'In Living Memory'? [BJ says no]. She ought to have a dig in that. Because that was done 2 or 3 years ago now, and all the WIs all over the country, have done the same thing, and got the members to write in with what they can remember themselves. And it's all grouped together. She wrote in and got a lot of their members to do it. They said they couldn't, and she said, 'Tell me the story, and I'll write it down for you. Tell me.' So she sent in quite a collection of various ones, of Somerset. And there's all sorts of things in there. It doesn't tell you the people's names, who sent it in, but they are what people can actually remember. A lot of it's the same from one village to another, you know, you hear more or less the same stories [pause], so there wasn't a lot of difference in where you lived.

[BJ asks when she joined the WI] Her mother-in-law took her up, first of all, soon after she came to Dunster. [BJ asks was that when they had it in Dunster castle] They only had it in Dunster castle about once a year. No, it was mainly in the memorial hall, practically always there. They would have talks by various interesting - sometimes the person was interesting, sometimes they were not. You could think it was going to be good and you'd go there and the person would make it as dull as ditchwater. And it could be a most interesting subject. And she'd think sometimes she could do a better job than that herself [laughs]. Because you've got to make it so that people want to listen to you, haven't you? You know, you can dish out information and well, it goes over people's heads. But you've got to put a little bit of personal thing into it, haven't you, and make it so people want to know about it.

[BJ asks whether she was on the committees at all] She has been, but she's come off now, let somebody else get on with it now. Mind, she's afraid she has quite a bit to say. They always know if she's not there. Yes, she went to London. That was lovely. She was there one year when the Queen Mother came. Because the Queen belonged, and the Queen Mother, to the WI, to their local branch at Sandringham, and they go to the meetings sometimes.  But she (the Queen Mother) was at the Albert Hall one year when HP was there. And she took ages and ages to walk down to the platform, she came in at the back. And she started chatting to this one and chatting to that one, you know. On her way down through, she didn't hurry at all. She was good, she was wonderful. A long time ago that was now.

Once when she went, she remembers, it was the year they were voting whether they'd join the common market or not. And everybody had their badges up [on], 'join' - no, she knows what it was. Somebody was coming round giving you badges to put up, to say 'join', 'join', and when they came and offered her, she said no thank you she didn't want one. And everybody looked at her because she was against and asked her why not. And she said, 'Well, I look at it like this. We're on the edge of Europe aren't we? And who does best? Those people who are in the middle. You look at England, the people who are in the centre of everything are best off. We're right on the edge'. No, she doesn't think it was the view of the Dunster group as well, it was just her own personal view.

You see the WI is a non-political organisation, and that's where Tony Blair went wrong. You remember, a couple of years ago when he was slow hand-clapped? Well of course, it was never brought out in any of the reports, or in anything any of the papers said or anybody on the radio or anything, commenting about it, that it was not the fact that it was Tony Blair - people weren't against him, they weren't against his party, not necessarily, they weren't against what he was saying. What they were objecting to was that he was bringing politics into the WI. If it had been a Conservative man doing the same thing, he would have been slow hand-clapped, just the same. Because he was talking party - she means, politics is one thing, party politics is another. And party politics, they will not put up with. And that's why he had that. Not because of who he was or his party, you see. But of course it was all taken wrong. And she doesn't think even he realised why. But they've got to take notice of so many thousands of women who do belong to the organisation, although there are not as many as there used to be, but it's still a very big organisation, that can have a lot of influence.

[BJ asks what influence does she think they have had] What influence? Well, on all sorts of different things, really. Nowadays, they don't consider it's worthwhile, not really, except that you can back up certain things. You see, what is thought of now as WI resolutions to go through, by the time they get it through, it's already been taken up. Like, well, what can she say? Perhaps in hospitals, the way people are treated, or National Health services of one kind or another. Anything that goes on in schools. You know, mothers and babies, and anything to do with the countryside perhaps, where they think things are not right, they can put a voice. It's all put in as a resolution that everybody's got to vote for in the WI, whether they agree with or they don't, whether it's going to be taken up or not. The members have got to think that it's right to bring the subject up. And then of course they go on with it and put the objections to parliament, and resolutions of what ought to be done. You know.

Yes it still makes a difference, but not as much as it used to be. It's not as necessary an organisation as it used to be. It was very important for country people years ago, because, before the evening institutes were set up, and the adult education and all that, it was the only place that anybody could go to learn any skill that they wanted to know. For instance, if people wanted to learn dressmaking, as long as there were 10 of you wanting to learn it, you could apply for a teacher to come down, once a week, so many weeks, 10 or 12 weeks, to teach those people how to do it. Anything that you wanted - if it was dancing for instance, you could get somebody to come and teach you the dancing. Or glove making, or cooking. Anything, you see.

[BJ asks who would pay for that] Well, she supposes it was the organisation, the WI organisation. The 10 of you had to contribute something, of course. But it was there, it was one of the services that was there. Now you see it's not necessary, because there's other places people can go to learn. We've got the telly, you can learn nearly everything you want off that, can't you? If you concentrate on it enough. That and a book, if you've got any sense at all. So it's not as necessary. If you wanted to have a drama group for instance, it was the WI who organised it. They did everything really. When you had a fete on or anything, the WI always did the refreshments. Anything that was wanted, there was somebody in the organisation who could get it going.

[BJ asks if young people are joining now] No. They're too busy aren't they, with other things? They're all working, aren't they? You see, the young mothers, they're working. By the time they get home and see to their children, they're away from their kids so much that they need all the time they've got, you know. She doesn't suppose they've got anybody younger than 50. And anyway, you see, you haven't got the young people in the village now. Nearly 70% of the people in the village are older people, all retired people. A different life altogether. [Back to top]
 

4/5

MOTHERS UNION / TALKING TO PEOPLE / JACK'S COUNTRY STORIES / VISITORS NOW

[BJ asks about the Mothers Union] Well, it's in the same position, isn't it? [BJ asks if she was involved in that as well] She has been lately. Since she lost her husband she joined that. More as a social thing, to get out with other people and join in with what's being done. [BJ asks what is the purpose of the Mothers Union] [laughs] To try to get people to be good mothers, good parents she supposes, and come to church and what not. Which of course they don't do. Yes, the Mothers Union is a religious based organisation, to do with the Church of England and that. Well there again, you see, if people want coffee, they expect the Mothers Union to do it. She always says they should alter the name and call it 'Marthas Union', not Mothers Union [laughs]. They expect the women to do all the dirty work.

Yes, it must be 15 years since her husband died [pause]. So of course, she's got out and joined in one or 2 more things so that she meets people. She means she always did, they worked together for so many years, and they each had their own activities as well, but even so, you get more time on your hands when you're on your own don't you? You want to get out and talk to other people. She's a great one - she can talk to people, anybody. She sits on the bench outside there [her cottage] in the summer sometimes. And visitors will come past and she'll say something to them. And some of them will talk for quite a while. They are pleased to talk to somebody local. Other people can hardly say good morning or what not. She doesn't worry about that. If she walks through the church [?yard] and meets them, she starts talking about something in the church, and they'll stay and talk.

So she doesn't lose out very much. Of course that's what she missed, when they gave up the shop. She missed the people. She didn't miss the work, she was glad to get rid of the work. But she did miss meeting the people. Because obviously they used to come to them. Especially to Jack. Every year, when they came down again, one of the first things they'd do would be to come in to find him, because of his fund of stories, you see. He had a terrific fund of stories, old country stories. He'd be down one end of the shop with a group of people all round him, and they'd be all roaring with laughter at him. The girls that worked in the shop used to get so agitated, saying they couldn't serve the people. She said, 'Don't worry. Leave them alone. They're happy enough. That's what they come for, to talk to him. They'll buy what they want, in the end. Don't worry. Leave 'em alone.' [laughs]

[BJ asks whether visitor numbers have changed] No, she shouldn't think so. They get loads and loads of them. There mightn't be quite so many stopping in the village, perhaps, as used to. She doesn't know. Because so many of the people living in the cottages used to do bed and breakfast. But there aren't very many of them do now. Its mostly small hotels or boarding houses. There's one or 2 private houses do it still, but not as many as used to. But still they do get loads and loads of people, into the village. They get a thousand through the castle, day after day in the summer. But it doesn't mean to say they all come down into the village. There are also a lot of coachloads that come in, and you can see place full. She supposes what they buy mostly is a cup of coffee, and an ice cream. Maybe have their lunch, some of them. It doesn't mean to say they buy a lot of other things.

[BJ asks whether the coachloads, and the visitors to the castle, would be more or less now] Oh yes, more. More. No, she doesn't think the kind of visitor has changed really, she doesn't think so. [BJ asks whether they still come for the same thing] Yes. Well, you get more people now who are on a touring holiday. You know, coaches that are based somewhere and they bring them to Dunster for the day, and over Exmoor. Whereas people used to come and stay for a week, and stay in the village, and then go out. So there's that. There're not so many people who stay for a week or a fortnight. Unless they're down in the chalets, down on the beach of course, but then she doesn't suppose they'd see an awful lot of them. She doesn't know. She supposes they do come up to the village, once anyway, while they are there. [Back to top]
 

4/6

SHOPS NOW / OLD SHOP / SELLING STOCK / INTERESTS / CANNING FRUIT IN WAR / WI JAM

[BJ asks what has replaced the shops and tradespeople who used to be there before] What her husband used to call rubbish shops. But that's changing a little bit. They went through a phase when nearly every shop was selling stuff which had been produced in Birmingham, or abroad, Taiwan or something. But now they are getting shops with a little more to them, better quality, different sort of things. They have one or two, she doesn't know how much stuff they sell, but there's one up in the High Street that sells pine furniture, and there's somebody else who sells pretty little lamps, that have been locally made. And things like that. And they have somebody who is selling quite nice clothes. And of course the lady in their old shop, she's only been there a couple of years, and she's doing antique linens, which she's doing very well with.

[BJ asks what the shop is called now] She's going to change the name. This isn't the first place she's been with the shop, HP thinks she was up somewhere round Cannington, Kilve, before. Oh, she called in 'The Linen Press', but she said she didn't copyright it or anything like that, and there are several other places now that have also called themselves The Linen Press. So she's going to change her name, she said. She's altering it from the shop. Because the man who bought the shop from them, he divided the shop and made 2 little units instead of one shop through. And she's taken down the partition wall, having it taken down, and altering it, so she's opening it up again. And then she says she's going to alter what she calls her business. So what exactly she's going to change it to HP doesn't know. She thinks she's going to include the name 'Draper' into it, because of course it was a drapery before. So she thinks she's going to call it 'The Linen Drapery' or something like that.

[BJ asks what did the man who bought it from them do with it] Made a right mess of it. [BJ asks whether he bought it as an existing business] Well, they'd closed down, mind, by the time he took it over. And then he chopped up the property and made it into several town houses - he called them cottages, but they're town houses - he ruined the property really. And he kept the shop the size it was, more or less, and made a flat up above, and sold it off as separate properties, you know. Well, he was doing it to make as much money as he could. And the workmanship he put into it was dreadful, because the people who bought it, it has cost them a lot of money to make it good again.

[BJ asks what happened to all the contents] Well, they didn't have very much in there that was, you know, that much valuable actually. They got rid of the fridges, and sold off the fixtures. They kept the big scales, the old scales they had. A very old pair of scales, they kept those. Sold off all the stock.

[BJ asks what she did, apart from the Women's Institute] What did she do? Bring up a family for one thing [laughs]. She has always been interested in handicrafts, and she used to go dancing. What else did she do? No, she didn't ride. She thinks she spent most of her time enjoying herself with the children, as much as anything. [BJ asks about getting out of Dunster] Oh yes, they used to go out, most Sundays they used to go out exploring the various countryside around, you know. She used to buy the waymarked walk books, and there was one book too, an Exmoor book, that was all about standing stones. And they spent all one Summer looking for all the standing stones around in the area. And that was their aim at going out. And they walked miles, drove miles, visiting all those sites. Well, she supposes history has always been one of her interests, hasn't it? And then they'd come to a road they'd never been down before, and there'd be no signpost, and they'd say, 'Come on, let's go down here and see where we come to.' And they did all sorts of exploring ancient sites.

They walked down the Barle one day, a long long time ago now, down to Cow Castle, and she remembers they had to take their shoes and socks off and paddle across the river 2 or 3 times to be able to get any further. She's done all sorts of things like that.

She used to take part in the drama that was going on. They used to produce 3 one act plays every year, and put them on, up in the High Street. As well as various things for the WI and that, they used to have entertainment there.

During the war, every month they'd put on a jolly good entertainment, at the end of the WI meeting, and they had this entertainment afterwards, and any amount of people from the village used to come in at the end, to watch their entertainment. It was quite good fun that. They did that all the way through the war.

Talking about the war, they had a canning machine, and used to can all the spare fruit that was about. And it all went into the general rations, they were sold in the shops, and markets and that, and they had to give points for them. Canned pears and plums, anything. Any fruit people had that was spare. Because you can only make so much jam, because you could only get a certain amount of sugar. And the WI jam all went in with the rations. Of course it was excellent quality stuff. If it's got a WI label on it's top quality stuff. [Back to top]
 

4/7

REFLECTIONS / HOLIDAYS / COUNTING YOUR BLESSINGS / PHOTOGRAPHS / VIDEOS

[BJ asks whether, looking back, there is anything she would have done differently] Oh lots of things [laughs]. She doesn't know whether she would ever have got married when she did. She'd have hung on longer before she got married she thinks. [BJ asks why is that] Well [hesitates], in a way you miss out on that time when you finish your education, and [before] you get responsibilities. And you've got that time when you can go mad if you want. But if you get married too young, you haven't got that mad time, you've lost it. Because you can never go back to being irresponsible, can you? She doesn't know, really, what she would have liked to have done [laughs]. Done a bit of travelling, perhaps.

[BJ asks if she travelled at all] Not then. She has done later, gone around a bit, on holidays. Interesting ones, if she could get them. Well she wouldn't go anywhere if she didn't see any interest in it. [BJ asks if that was with her husband] Not mainly, no. Because it was very difficult when you were running a business to get away together. And it was an awful job to get him to go anywhere [interrupts herself to say the church clock is playing. They try to listen, but can't because of the wind in the fireplace] It's Monday, so the tune will be 'Drink to me only'. [BJ asks where would she go with her holidays] Oh, she's been to Rome, and Switzerland, and Norway. The North of Scotland, Skye, Ireland. Various places. She'd go with any friend that was willing to come as well.

[BJ asks about highlights, or things that stick in her mind] She doesn't really know. Nothing strikes her particularly [laughs] [BJ asks whether there is some visual picture] No she doesn't think so [thinks]. She doesn't think so. It all seems to blend in together [laughs]

[BJ asks what she does when she's feeling miserable, to cheer herself up] Gives herself a kick, and tells herself not to be so silly [laughs] and start counting her blessings. They used to sing when they were kiddies at school, 'Count your blessings, count them one by one. And thank the Lord for all the 'something' he has done,' she can't remember the exact words. But it has always stuck with her, all her life, that. Everybody's got something to be thankful for. So, she doesn't let herself get like that. She thinks you can stop that, when you can see it starting.

One thing she doesn't do, she doesn't have many family photographs about, and she doesn't look back. Some time ago she got out - she's got a lot of transparencies - and she put up her projector and went through a lot of the transparencies. And she wished she hadn't. You know? And she never watches - they've got an old video track of Jack, her husband, and his tapes and what not - she never watches them. She couldn't bear to watch. So she keeps away. Because that can make her very unhappy thinking about what used to be.

 [BJ says she was telling her someone did a video tape of her, and her husband] No, it was of her. He had one done by somebody who came, the BBC or somebody, and they chatted with him and one or 2 of his mates, he's on that one. But she did a National Trust one, and she also did one for Radio Devon, but of course that didn't show in their area. They were videos. [BJ queries whether Radio Devon was also a video] Yes, that was a video. Well, for one of the programmes, she doesn't know whether they produced it as a video. It was for one of the programmes, she supposes they were going round various areas, wanting [tails off]. [BJ asks whether she looks at those] No. No. The past is gone. It's all right if it's long enough ago, and it's not too personal, that's OK. But, no, she doesn't want to see those.

[BJ asks about photographs of her grandchildren] That's all right, because they're still there, and that's all right. [BJ says, HP is still there] She's still there, yes [laughs], but she has never watched the one of her for the National Trust. They all tell her it's very good, but she's never watched it. [Back to top]
 

4/8

HEALTH / MINEHEAD HOSPITAL / NEIGHBOURS / SHOPPING / RADIO

[BJ says she had said she was in hospital at Christmas] Yes, before Christmas. She lost nearly all her oxygen. She was getting so sleepy, and her neighbour, she goes up to the High Street every Tuesday, and she always calls in to see if HP wants anything, on Tuesday. And, she wasn't dressed, she was in the other room and she was sound asleep when she came in. She couldn't wake her up. So she came back again about half an hour later, and she was still sound asleep. She came in lunchtime, and she brought her in some soup. She doesn't remember - she doesn't remember her bringing it in - but apparently she did take a few spoonfuls of soup, and then went to sleep over it. So HP rang up the doctor, and he came. Mind, she'd been down to the doctor before, and told him how breathless she was. He said it was asthma and gave her a puffer thing. Anyway, they persuaded her to say she'd go in hospital.

But she doesn't remember anything of the first 4 days in hospital. She wasn't asleep all the time, but she's lost her memory of it. She can remember going to the hospital and walking in the front door, but she doesn't remember going into ward, she doesn't remember going to bed, or having anything to eat, or who she talked to, or who went to see her. She's absolutely lost 4 or 5 days completely. And what was wrong, she was losing all her oxygen. So in the end she had to stay in there quite a while while she was waiting to see the chest man. He only comes down to Minehead once a month. She was in Minehead hospital. She went to Taunton for several tests. They did all sorts of tests, but she doesn't remember what they did to her. She had an ECG apparently, but that was nothing, to her. Anyway, of course they found out there that her oxygen was down, so they put her on an oxygen cylinder. And that's why she had to stay in hospital. She was in there for 3½ weeks altogether, because she couldn't leave the oxygen cylinder. Within about 10 days she could stay away from it for about an hour, but then she had to go back on it. So the specialist found out in the end what it was, it was her heart that wasn't working well enough, so he put her on pills etc. Anyway, it works now. She got her oxygen back. So that's why she had to be in hospital.

She quite enjoyed it actually. They missed her when she came away [laughs]. The nurses used to say, 'Mrs Parham, you're in charge.' Because of course they had various old dears that would do all sorts of things they shouldn't do. And one old girl, she was only in there a couple of nights, she tickled HP pink. She was a sweet old thing actually. She'd keep on putting herself to bed. And she'd undress and go to bed. She'd fold up everything, neat and tidy, everything had to be just so, and folded exactly. And she'd fold it all up, in the middle of the day, and she'd put herself to bed. And they couldn't stop her doing it. Because you see they mustn't touch anybody, unless they're putting themselves in danger. They daren't touch them to actually stop anybody doing anything [laughs]. Oh dear, oh dear. She used to put herself to bed and she'd go to sleep. Well of course, she was getting up at night, wasn't she? She was doing the same thing at night. And she'd toddle over to the toilet, and then she wouldn't be able to find her way back.

[BJ asks about not touching anyone] No, they mustn't touch anybody, you see, not unless they're putting themselves in danger. They'd be had up for assault or something, if they weren't careful. They daren't. It's ridiculous really. But they couldn't restrain her, or [tails off].

[BJ asks how much of a support HP has in the community, the neighbours] Yes, she's got a couple of very good neighbours there, who will pop in and see her. If she wants anything all she has to do is ask. They are quite a nice little lot living round there, those of them that are there all the time.

Yes, she caters for herself. One of her neighbours gets most of her groceries for her. Of course, see, they have to go to Minehead for what they want. They have got a delicatessen up in the High Street, it's true. But that has changed hands and it isn't quite as good as it was. But still it's something, and you can go and get something, if you want it.

[BJ says that when she came HP was listening to the radio, and asks her what she likes about it] She likes the discussions, and the quizzes. And some of the plays that are on. That's radio 4, yes. And she listens to Radio Bristol, sometimes. She listens to Classic FM. Quite often when there's nothing on, she just likes some sort of noise, in the house, and she puts on Classic FM then. But not too loud, so it's just a bit of background, nice sound in the background.

Yes, she watches television. She doesn't watch any soaps. She listens to 'the Archers', she always listens to the Archers. She has listened to that since they started, she wouldn't say every episode, mind. But she started listening when they started. She didn't listen to 'Mrs Dale's Diary', she never went back as far as that. But she doesn't watch any soaps at all. Some of these people, she thinks if only they'd talk to each other there wouldn't be a story. And that she can't stand. And some of these girls (on the soaps, that she doesn't watch) all they want is their backsides smacked. You know, it's ridiculous behaviour. She doesn't want to see it. And some of it's such misery, she doesn't want to watch misery. [BJ asks what does she watch] Morse, you know. And Taggart, she likes. She likes watching the Millionaire programme. [BJ asks if she does the lottery at all] Occasionally, when she's in the right place [laughs]. Not madly, and if she doesn't have a ticket she doesn't worry. [Back to top]
 

4/9

READING / NEWSPAPERS / POLITICIANS / DUNSTER SHOW

[BJ asks if she still reads] Oh she reads. She reads an enormous amount. Yes. [BJ asks whether she gets a newspaper] She gets the [West Somerset] Free Press, and she has the Western Daily Press on Saturdays. Because then she gets a television thing in it. But she doesn't have a Sunday paper, because the scandal and that. No. There's so much rubbish in there. And there's nothing else but rubbish and scandal. Occasionally she'd wish she'd had a paper, but mostly it's stuff that she doesn't want to read about. And you get the news anyway, don't you, on the telly? Sometimes she does change her mind and take a paper every day, but when it comes to election time or something like that she cancels the papers. She doesn't want to read about the election [laughs].

[BJ asks whether she votes] Yes, she supposes she does, vote. She doesn't know whether she's going to vote next time, she'll have to wait and see. And she doesn't always vote for the same party either [laughs] Some time ago, she had a phone call, from the local chap, asking if she could tell him how she was going to vote next time [repeats conversation verbatim]. She said there was no election coming up and he said they were just trying to find out who was likely to support them (he was the Conservative man). She said she didn't know how she was going to vote and couldn't tell him. So he asked if she would tell him how she voted last time. And she said no she wouldn't, it was supposed to be a secret, wasn't it? She said, 'What a waste of time you bothering to do this, half the people will tell you a lie anyway, or tell you what they think you want them to say. You can't rely on what people tell you anyway.' Her husband used to call politicians professional liars. He always said they were, which is true isn't it? They have been taught how to prevaricate, haven't they?

[BJ says she had meant to ask, when they were talking about Dunster, whether she had been to Dunster Show at all] She's been once or twice. Of course, it isn't like it used to be. They used to see the horses going through with their manes all tied up with ribbons, and their tails done, and their coats shining, and their hooves. And they used to have to walk through. That was lovely when you saw all the animals being walked down there, through the village. If they were coming from the Timberscombe area they had to come all the way through, didn't they? Up over Castle Hill and down there and into the showground. Or through the village and round.

They used to have to dash out and stop them going up into the churchyard [laughs] and coming up the lane there [the Drangway]. It was lovely to see them walking through. They were great big heavy horses that you don't see now. Last time she saw one of those was at the farm park, down at Bossington. She hasn't been down there for a long time, but they used to have a beauty. They took the children down there when they were little but she hasn't been down there since. They had a beautiful big heavy horse down there. The men used to use them with their timber carts, pulling the stuff down to he saw yard. Those days are all gone now.

[BJ asks if she followed the hunt at all] She has done. Not on horseback; they've gone up to a strategic point and watched the hunt. She supposes that will be finishing before very long too, won't it?

[BJ asks about Dunster Fair] Well, that's a fairly new thing, really. That's only been on, what, about 10 years, something like that. It's very popular with the visitors of course. They have thousands of people down there. But of course, the Dunster Show, the local people used to be involved in that. But it's only one or 2 now of the people who are organising it, get involved. But they don't get the local people necessarily on the gate. Half the village used to close down on Dunster Show day, and go down helping. But that hasn't happened for a long time.

[BJ asks if it made any difference to them, as a business] No. Well, it did, because it was quieter. Because everybody was down there instead of being in the village, they were there on the showground.

[END OF RECORDING] [Back to top]