CD3

(48 mins)
 

3/1

TAUNTON BUS SERVICE / REGAL THEATRE / TRAINS / MR DOCKER / BUYING COTTAGES

He thinks Timberscombe is a fine place. But he thought more of Wootton Courtenay. Oh, he must tell BJ about the Taunton service bus, mustn't he?

Well, going back to the buses again. When he [Billy Burnell], bought the bus, he bought it from a Mr Pugsley, who was about to run a Taunton bus service. So Billy Burnell and Jeff Pugsley of Wheddon Cross got a bus service between them. They were partners, he thinks, and Burnells ran a bus service. And DP drove there. That was about 1928/29. Well, very early '30s. And this bus service left Wootton Courtenay village 9 o'clock for Taunton. They'd come over and pick up at Timberscombe, for Taunton. Wheddon Cross, pick up for Taunton. Bridgetown, pick up, Taunton.

Just beyond Bridgetown there used to be the Stag's Head pub. That is 2 miles after Bridgetown, still going down the valley, Stag's Head. You turn left up Hownel Lane, across the top road and drop down into King's Brompton. Still on the bus service, picking up from farms, farm gates. People wanting to go to Taunton. Children and all. Then from King's Brompton past Woollcotts, Woolcotts Hill, to what they used to call the Watchet turnpike. Robbery turnpike, wasn't it called? Anyway, you'd get up there, turn left, down past the Brendon Hill chapel, past Ralegh's Cross, drop down Elworthy Burrows, still picking up for Taunton. Out Watch Bridge [?sp], Bishops Lydeard, [indistinct], and then into Taunton.

They'd leave at 9 o'clock and get into Taunton at 11, he supposes.

Well then, they used to go off and do their shopping when he parked the bus in Castle Green car park. You'd sit in the bus waiting, looking around, perhaps going out for a walk around and come back. Somebody would bring a piece of meat, or a parcel, for somebody on the route, 'Mrs Somebody have bought this, could you keep it in the bus and look after it?', 'Mrs Somebody have bought this, she'll be going home directly.'

Four o'clock they used to start doing the return journey. Absolutely the reverse, back to Wootton Courtenay. That was the end of the Taunton bus service.

Then very probably he'd say to DP that there was a picture bus that night and could he go in the Regal in Minehead [laughs]. The Regal had been built then and was very new. The Regal Theatre. [BJ asks when the Regal was built] [hesitates] Well, it was being built then, sort of built. Because another thing that involved buses was, a man had the Regal Theatre who was a Jew, what was he called [pause], he doesn't know. He used to have Sunday night services and Sunday night comedians and all kind of things, somebody would sing. DP used to have to go to Torquay, where he had a theatre, and pick up all the implements, the [indistinct] and the drums, and one thing and another, and bring them back to the Regal, where he would have a Sunday night in the Regal. Then the next weekend he'd have a bus and take them to Weston, and vice-versa perhaps. But he was always on the go. And that was the Regal Theatre connection.

[BJ asks why he went by bus from Wootton Courtenay if there was a train] Because people wanted it. When you get to King's Brompton/Brompton Regis, people used to go to Taunton on the bus to do their shopping, and come home with it. You know, farm labourers, and wives, at the end of the drives, or the gateways into the farms. That's what the bus service was for, to connect with the people in the outlying farms. [BJ asks how much would they use the train from Wootton Courtenay] Oh, quite a lot. The train from Dunster used to be more or less owned by, it's called the Great Western, Dunster Castle, the Luttrells, and a Mr Docker, who used to live in Wootton Courtenay. He was some relation, he thinks it was a brother, to Lady Docker, who used to have a gold studded Rolls Royce. Mr Docker was living in Wootton Courtenay, Orchard House it was called.

The nearest train to Wootton Courtenay was Dunster. He's been in Dunster station before now, and the old guard that used to start from Minehead had his green flag, and the train would 'choo-choo-choo' into Dunster station, and the guard would jump off the train with his green flag and [?they would] say, 'Can't go yet, you; can't go yet. Mr Docker isn't here/Mr Luttrell isn't here.' [re-enacts event] And the whole train would wait, steaming, until Mr Luttrell arrived and got on the train, and away would go the guard with his green flag. That was Dunster station.

Docker, well Mr Docker we'll call him, was something to do with BSA rifles, and something to do with BSA motorcycles. He'd got his Missus in London. So he was Monday morning to London, Friday night pick up to go home to Wootton Courtenay. But Col Luttrell, he was a man who owned most of Dunster. Docker used to play polo, he was a polo man. And that is why Dunster polo ground is called Dunster Polo Ground. They used to play polo there. Is there anything else. 

[BJ asks if he knew Mr Docker, and what was he like] Yes, he used to drive him. Drive him to Dunster station. He wasn't a gentleman that thought a lot of himself. He had somebody to do everything for him, he had his cook and he had his waiter and he had his chauffeur, in the end. Daimler cars he used to go with. He had his own chauffeur and car. He had his own horses and his own groom. Of course they all had houses in Wootton Courtenay, and as they died, or got rid of them, Docker would buy them. And when he died he left So-and-So, his chauffeur, a house, and he left his groom a house. You know, everything was occupied,  Which years ago were farm labourers cottages, because Mr Docker bought them up and put his chauffeur, and groom and that in them. So that did away with the farm labourers [indistinct] really. [Back to top]
 

3/2

SOCIAL LIFE / BINGO / SHELTERED HOUSING / JUBILEE CLUB

[BJ asks what he did for social life, apart from the motor club] Bingo. Because it was energetic [sic], engineering, he made quite a lot of bingo machines. Made them. Now, if you had a gramaphone, with a turntable. Not a wind up one, but electric. He'd take it, and take it home. And he'd see the motor was all right, and the turntable was going round. He'd have a plastic oil drum, cut it, and the turntable would be going round inside the bottom of this plastic drum. He'd pick up his gramaphone, and he made a pipe coming out here [illustrates, with his hands], one ball would come out at a time. And he had a set of balls, 19 balls - this is bingo balls mind - and put the motor going, and the turntable would be going round like that, and he'd let out one ball only at a time. So he'd pick that ball out, put it on the grid on the top, '1 and 9 - 19'; '2, 0 - 20'.

Well, he made 14 of those machines, out of old gramaphones. He's still got some of them about now. Well, then he thought to himself he could do a bit better and got hold of a firm that supplied the proper bingo machine, which is electrical, computer-rigged. Numbers in the thing, you press a button and up comes a number. Press a button and up comes another number. And he used to call bingo to Washford old people's home - he still does - Minehead, he's called in Silvermead. He's called in Alcombe village hall. He made a machine for Alcombe village hall. He's made one for the old people's home in Silvermead. He made one for Washford, where he still calls, but he takes his own machine. Most weeks somewhere he's calling. That's for his own pleasure. But his motorcycling really was the biggest pleasure.

[BJ asks and now?] Now? Well, he can't get about so well. He doesn't drive, and Betty doesn't like driving in the night, so he doesn't go so much. But there's somebody on the site there who says, 'If you're going to bingo tonight I'll take 'ee in,'. So, he's got lovely acquaintances, really. And the old people like to see him, because it's a bit of entertainment for them.

No, when he moved to Timberscombe he wasn't moving among people he knew. Because it's an old people's covered [sheltered] bungalow site. It is only old people, or people, we'll say infirmed, or a bit infirmed, who they let their bungalows to. They wouldn't let them to children. Because this is a bungalow and that's a house there, where the 2 children are [indicates through the window and comments that they hadn't heard a thing from them - BJ having worried at the beginning about background noise from the neighbours' garden]. They don't hear very much from the neighbours. Otherwise, they are all elderly people [on the site]. They are all friends, friendly, and they [we] do, and he does, for them if they want anything. He used to do a lot of things for them. Like mechanical things, or anything that he could help them with. He helps anybody.

In the evening he would do bingo. Up to now they [we] have been fairly frequent with bingo, and bingo nights.  But now he doesn't do so much of it because he can't get around unless somebody offers to take him. And they do. Then they've got a Jubilee Club on the side there. They have functions that take place like whist drives - he doesn't go to whist drives. They have 2 or 3 bingos a year, which he does. Otherwise, you have to make your own entertainment. [Back to top]
 

3/3

NATIONAL PARK / WEBBER'S POST / WARDEN ADVERTISEMENT / HUNTING / MR BOOTS

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[BJ says he has lived through Exmoor becoming a national park and asks whether it has changed at all because of that] Yes. Yes. There's one thing, years ago, they'd take fish and chips or something like that and go up to Webber's Post and listen to the stags boeving, or something like that. Because the wife was the cook at the Dunkery Hotel. You'd finish perhaps at 10 o'clock and would get some fish and chips and go up Webber's Post. Well, when you got to Webber's Post, you could drive in anywhere, years ago. Well, now you've got to be careful because there are stakes driven in, aren't there? He thinks that the National Park really has got too much of a good thing. But he daresay it's good for some people and bad for others.

Now, years ago, when there was not a warden, when there was no Exmoor National Park, there was an advert went out, they wanted a chief warden. And he put in for it. He was whittled down to 6. Then they wrote and told him that Cdr Collins [fellow contributor to the archive] had got the job, and thanked him very much for all he'd done. Because his life was on Exmoor. His life was on Exmoor park. His life had been driving, hunting and doing all kinds of things, in the national park. And they went and got a Commander off a ship to look after the national park. And at that time, you had to keep the footpaths clear of brambles, cut the grass, make quite sure that gateways were openable and stiles were right to get over. Well, he [Cdr Collins] didn't know anything about that. But DP had put in that he had spent his life on Exmoor and knew everything. But he didn't get the job.

No, he didn't go for an interview. But he was whittled down to the 6. Six of thousands they said, even foreigners were putting in for it. He supposes he wasn't interviewed just because he wasn't a Commander. He has no dislike to him, but he thinks they could have done things much better, to more value, than what they have done [pause]. Because all the paths on Dunkery, the walks up over from the Dunster path, and the old path going on to Luccombe, they all had to be kept clear, brambles cut and all that. And DP knows he used to help to do that. And he knew all about the district, knew the people, but he didn't, did he? He doesn't know what BJ thinks about it? [BJ says it is his view that's interesting] That was his view of it.

He used to drive people hunting. The Dunkery Hotel for instance. Boots, the cash chemist, came there to stop, and they always wanted to be driven hunting. Of course that meant that the garage, and the hire cars he mentioned just now, would have to take Mr Boots hunting for a day. Well, DP knew the district, knew where the stag was going, knew everything that was happening - we'll say everything, a lot of it - and would take them hunting. He knows there was a French party, a man and his wife, a daughter and her husband, who used to come over from France. Wootton Courtenay hotel used to have 13 stables, all attached to the hotel. And they used to take these stables, to bring over their horses and go hunting. DP used to have to drive their horsebox to Dunkery Hill Gate, to the meet, and go up in the night and pick up the horses, and them, and bring them back to Wootton Courtenay stables. They were staying at the hotel as well. And they did that for years. A French family.

They used to have all the big people to stay there. The Magors, was another big [tails off]. And Boots cash chemist used to come there. They liked their hunting and that was what they came for. Then there was the stables. Another man, not the hotel, used to own the stables. And of course it was good for him, too, to let his horses, hunting.

Well, he doesn't know; he fancies they've spent nearly 2 hours [talking]. He'll see, if the wife has come back she can get them a cup of coffee or something. [Back to top]
 

3/4

HUNTING

[BJ says she did just want to ask whether there were many cars following the hunt] Yes. Much more than there are today. And horseboxes. He knows, he was coming over Dunkery (this is another little incident, which might be of help to BJ), driving a bus, and hounds and a stag were looking off the top of Dunkery down in the Cloutsham valley. And all the way from the top of Dunkery, right down to Luccombe, is a steep hill. And all the way down there there were cars parked all over the road - this is to start with, coming over Dunkery. And he was driving a bus, nothing to do with the hunt, and he couldn't get through. But he managed that and that [demonstrates manoeuvring] and got through some of them, but there were still cars all the way down. And over on the bank, as he was trying to go down between the cars, people had their glasses [binoculars] and were looking out over. He asked someone if they would move their car so he could get through. When he refused, DP said that if he didn't move it he would, so the man hastily moved forward a bit [re-enacts conversation and laughs]

[BJ asks what he thinks about hunting] If hunting's done in a proper way, yes. But today's hunting, no. Can he give a little incident about what you should do, and what you shouldn't do? Well, to start with, there's a field master of the hounds, and he's the master of the hounds. There's a harbourer of the stag, who [say] goes out tonight to harbour a stag for tomorrow's meet at Dunkery Hotel. This harbourer, at the time of the meet, 11 o'clock, comes back and says he's got a good stag, somewhere, in the Timberscombe valley. A beautiful stag. Well, the master of the pack, or hounds, says they'll take 6 couple, 3 couple, or 4 couple, to Timberscombe Wood to get the stag out. Well, that's all right up to now. Well the master goes with him [the harbourer], but the hounds are left over in Wootton Courtenay stables. And when they want them, they'll come over to Timberscombe.

Well, those half dozen hounds they've got, go into the wood in Timberscombe and put that stag out. And the field master says, 'No, you've got to wait 20 minutes,' - this is how they did hunt - and that master keeps everything back from Timberscombe wood, and the stag's gone, gone, gone. And he's got 20 minutes to get away. He might go to Webber's Post, he might be in Horner valley. But those hounds have got to run that course, and track, and smell, and scent of that stag all the way from when the master goes to Wootton Courtenay, or waves a flag to get the hounds over. And they put all the hounds then to hunt that stag, which has had 20 minutes get-away. And they hunt that stag, and they never catch him. Because he's gone too far ahead and hounds have got to run his scent all the way he's gone. If he goes that way, they've got to go that way.

But another thing he doesn't agree with. Somebody up on the top of the hill there has seen the stag go over, and is shouting, and they pick up [ie move on] those hounds and take them over there, nearly on his tail. Well, that shouldn't be, because that stag should have had time to get away. Well, the master should keep those hounds back. But today, they just put the pack out and the whole lot is following. He might go from here to Withypool, and still get away, but the one that's got a better chance of getting away is the 20 minute start, isn't it? So that's how hunting should be. But today they don't hunt like that. Not to his opinion. This is only his opinion. [Back to top]
 

3/5

LONG DISTANCE DRIVING / DAGENHAM / BIRMINGHAM

Is there anything else? [BJ asks about a most memorable experience] To do with anything? [thinks] He doesn't know. He likes his motorcycling, he likes driving anyone, he likes bus driving and he likes car driving. And he likes long distance. He was telling BJ just now that the boss used to take him to Taunton station and put him on the train at 2 o'clock in the morning, to go somewhere to pick up a car. He'd bring that car down, or he'd have to wait for that car to be finished manufacturing. And he's been at Dagenham, waiting for his car to come off [the assembly line]. And he's seen the car coming up. [break as disk ends]

He was at Dagenham, where he had to pick up a certain engine number, which would be ready for him that morning. He'd get there and be told that his car wasn't on the assemble line yet. He'd look down the end of a long [line]. There'd be a moveable track of cars coming up, and your car might be in that. Because at Dagenham they'd have the car chassis on the run, and you'd have to be putting the wheels on. So a man would stand there, he'd unhang a wheel, push it on, and the car would still be going on. Well, the next man would be screwing on the nuts. But his car wouldn't be on the assembly line to start yet. They'd tell him that if he waited until 3 o'clock in the afternoon it would be off. And you could watch your car coming up and up and up, and you had to be there waiting to take your car, when it came off the assembly line. And a man would be standing at a petrol pump and put in 4 gallons of petrol. He'd come home on 4 gallons of petrol and he [Billy Burnell] would say to him the next day, that he was sending him again for another car [laughs]. Well, that was beginning to be a bit too much to travel by night and come home by day, because it wasn't quite safe. So then, he might have a rest and not go 

Then he'd have to go to Longbridge for an Austin, or something like that. Well, that was a bit different. He'll tell BJ another incident he had, when he had to go to the other side of Birmingham, to a body works and pick up this refuse [cart], a special body which had to be built on a chassis. The chassis was there. And he [Billy Burnell] said he wanted him to go to, Birmingham say, and pick up this refuse cart, which was a special body. And there was a air raid warning on - air raids were on, it was during the war - and he got to the platform to get off the train, and a policeman came up to him and asked where he was going. And he said he wanted to get to the Eagle Bodyworks. He said he wouldn't get there that night because there was an air raid on. So DP asked what should they do and the policeman put him in a police cell, with a bed, and brought him a cup of tea in the morning and took him to the Eagle Bodyworks. That was a funny incident, really, wasn't it? Because there was an air raid warning on. It was something to do with Coventry, he believes, he doesn't know. [Back to top]
 

 3/6

WOOTTON COURTENAY CHANGES / VILLAGE SHOP / SERVICES / BAKER / BLACKSMITH'S SHOP / BONDING WHEELS

When he first went to Wootton Courtenay it was farms. Farms and farm labourers. He can count the number of farms really. Ranscombe farm and Mill Farm (the two where he worked), Riverside farm, Brookside farm. That's 4 farms. The other side of Wootton Courtenay was Huntscott farm, Wootton Knowle farm, Ford farm, and Brockwell farm. So he thinks you can say there was 10 farms there. Well, each of those farms had village farm labourers, and village farm labourers cottages. And most of these farms had 2 cottages, for 2 farm labourers. Well, now you've got a job to get 4 farms, in Wootton Courtenay, so therefore there are no farm labourers. That's the alteration, that he has seen.

Farm cottages have been bought for summer lets. So therefore there's not the people of Wootton Courtenay that used to be. Most of the places have been bought up. Farm labourers cottages, thatched cottages, and all that, and turned into Summer lets. And most people have got a Summer let in Wootton Courtenay. So, we'll go from farms, and farm labourers, to Summer lets. And that's a change, a great change.

[BJ asks about the village itself] There's a shop, a pub, a post office. No tea rooms, only the Dunkery Hotel may do a meal, he doesn't know. But there's a shop. Which they haven't got at Timberscombe, mind, they can't buy a box of matches. Without going to Minehead. They've [we've] got a shop at Wheddon Cross. Yes, the shop at Wootton Courtenay has always been there. Yes [indistinct]. It was bought by the village. It is a village owned shop. Run by a paid manager. [BJ asks why was it bought by the village] Well, it was just going, else, if somebody didn't take it over and handle it. [pause] Well, you can't get a hire car in the village. There is a bus service, he thinks, run by Western or [indistinct] National. That's today.

When he first went there there would have been a reading room, a village hall, a shop - big stores, where you'd order your stuff and they'd deliver it. Post office, a separate post office. Bakehouse. A bakery. A baker's shop - all the same baker's. He used to bake his bread in his bakehouse, deliver it even to Porlock. And orders he'd take out. He used to have an old Model T Ford, when DP went there first. Before that he used to have a horse and trap, but that was before DP's time. There was a pub/hotel. Blacksmith, yes. Carpenter's shop, next to the blacksmith's. The old grinding stone used to be down by the river, by the blacksmith's. The grinding stone was where they used to grind staffhooks and hooks. They used to hold their knife or whatever and somebody had to turn the handle.

And outside the blacksmith's shop there was a wheel-bonding apparatus. They used to have a forge fire, and a flat iron rim that way [demonstrates], a big one, wheel size. And the carpenter's shop used to make the wheel, it was made up in parts, and then there was an iron bond, which used to go right round this wheel. But that one had to be got red hot. Red hot. Down beside the river, he said, didn't he? And taken out by tongs and people, put on this thing, with a spindle in the centre, so the centre of the wheel would be there [demonstrates] and the bond would be brought out red hot, put on the wooden rim of the wheel and driven on, all the way round, water poured on immediately. And that iron bond would shrink then onto the woodwork. Well, that was outside the blacksmith's shop. Carpenter's shop and blacksmith's shop together. The forge was in the blacksmith's shop.

The blacksmith was Freddy Kent, in the latter years, most of the years. He used to have his main shop at Allerford, didn't he? And he used to come to Exford, didn't he? And he used to have the Wootton Courtenay shop. Before that, when he went to Wootton Courtenay first the blacksmith was called Pristcott, old Mr Pristcott. And there's a forge house as well, where the blacksmith used to live. The carpenter would have a house. He can't remember who he was. He can't remember that one. [Back to top]
 

3/7

author r e s pepper / beanos / picking up books / sir alfred and lady munnings / paintings

Another incident. During the war (buses still), the boss Billy Burnell asked him to take all the seats out of a 14-seater bus and go to London, during the war, to bring down a load of books. It was for a man who used to write Beanos, children's comics. He was called R E S Pepper, and he said his books were in jeopardy because he lived a Harwich, on the East coast, and he had been bombed and bombed and bombed, and he wanted all these papers and books brought back to Wootton Courtenay, where he had a cottage. DP went to London. He got through London, out on to the East coast. War was still on. The army were still guarding everything. He got to his place on the East coast, Harwich, and he [Mr Pepper] said they'd have a cup of tea and that he would pop out to get some milk. In the meantime, DP was bringing out boxes of books and putting them in the bus, suitcases full of books. And he used to collect and save Beanos, and re-write them, and Rainbows, and things like that. And there was stacks and stacks of those. Which he'd had for falling back on, DP supposes, to read and write about.

And across the other side of the road was a depot or something, full of soldiers. And while DP was bringing out the books, into this bus, which was pulled into R E S Pepper's forecourt, they came across and arrested him, because they thought he was doing something wrong. He had to explain that he was picking up these boxes of books and taking them down to Wootton Courtenay. They asked who they belonged to and he said, 'Well, he isn't here at the moment.' [laughs] He couldn't explain, couldn't get himself out of it all. He said, 'He'll be here in a minute.' By this time, they'd arrested him. When Mr Pepper came back, he couldn't find DP. So DP sent them over to him. And he got DP out of custody, really, because he could explain. They thought he was doing sabotage work, or bombs and that.

And then another thing, they had Lady Munnings. Can BJ remember Lady Munnings, the side-saddle horsewoman? The only side-saddle horsewoman. She had beautiful side-saddle clothing, a side-saddle, and horses. She lived on the East coast, or he did. What was he called? Sir Alfred Munnings. And he used to paint the Queen's horses, can BJ remember? And he'd got all these paintings in his home at Harwich. And DP had to take the same bus to Harwich to pick up his beautiful pictures. They packed up all these pictures, filled the bus up with these pictures, and took them back to Wootton Courtenay. In safe keeping. They lived in Wootton Courtenay. They'd got a Summer let, or a Summer house, in Wootton Courtenay. And he wanted the pictures brought back there in safe-keeping. [BJ says she knew he was living at Withypool at one time, was he living at Wootton Courtenay as well?] He was living at Wootton Courtenay, as well as the R E S Pepper man. This was Sir Alfred Munnings and his wife, Lady Munnings.

DP used to have to drive him to different places to paint staircases, and things like that. But he got him back into Wootton Courtenay. And he kept all his stuff in Wootton Courtenay, right through the war. [DP] saved all that, saved R E S Pepper, with his children's books, Lady Munnings and Sir Alfred Munnings, he got them back to Wootton Courtenay in the end, or their best belongings that they wanted to save. And that was through all the war, and the bombing. 

[BJ asks what they did afterwards] They spent their life in Wootton Courtenay [check]. And he used to go out different places, painting, DP would have to take him. And Lady used to go along with him. And on the way to a place he'd say, 'Have you got my turps?' 'Have you got my paintbrushes?' 'Yes, Alfred, I've got your paintbrushes.' When he got there once, it was out on the Porlock Hill side, he was going down to Ashley Combe to paint an old bedstead or something like that, they were going down this drive and he said, 'Where's my turps, Violet?' (she was in the back), 'I've got them, Alfred,' And they got there and the bloody bottle was empty [laughs]. Coo, didn't he cuss and career [laughs]. And DP had to go all the way back to Wootton Courtenay to get his turps, for his paints.

While he was painting DP would just stay around. Because he used to take some time to paint a bedstead, or a horse, or something. But that was DP's life with him. She would stay home, mostly. But when she was out, she'd ride along and say, 'Coo, what a beautiful view, Alfred.' 'Stop! Stop!', he'd say to DP, 'I want to look at this' (or paint it or do something). 'Oh, yes, wonderful' [she'd say]. They did agree. [BJ asks what would she have done while he was painting] Be with him, DP supposes. He didn't used to have to take her back home, while he was painting. She'd be making an interest of herself, he supposes.

She rode side-saddle beautifully. There are pictures of her side-saddle on her horse. You know, they used to ride side-saddle, with long gowns to cover their feet. She was a beautiful sight. She was a wonderful woman really, Lady Munnings. As a matter of fact, he bought the old carpenter's shop, and that's where a lot of the pictures went, with an adjoining house where they lived, in Wootton Courtenay.

Is there anything else. [BJ says that's fine and thanks him] Well, he hopes to have been of some assistance to her. And he hopes that he hasn't done anything wrong, or said anything wrong about anybody.

[END OF RECORDING] [Back to top]